Christian responses to Leviticus et. al?
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02-08-2012, 03:48 PM
RE: Christian responses to Leviticus et. al?
(02-08-2012 03:45 PM)fstratzero Wrote:  [Image: kingschosen-meme-generator-when-in-reali...12444f.jpg]

I think this is my new favorite pic.

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02-08-2012, 04:31 PM
RE: Christian responses to Leviticus et. al?
(02-08-2012 03:48 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(02-08-2012 03:45 PM)fstratzero Wrote:  [Image: kingschosen-meme-generator-when-in-reali...12444f.jpg]

I think this is my new favorite pic.

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02-08-2012, 05:37 PM
RE: Christian responses to Leviticus et. al?
(02-08-2012 03:34 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  You're dealing with infinite here, though.

What you're saying is linear... "This because of this does that."

When in reality its, "This is this therefore that is that because of this."

I know that's confusing, but it's the end of the day and my brain is melted. Let me know if you don't understand.
Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?

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02-08-2012, 05:39 PM
RE: Christian responses to Leviticus et. al?
(02-08-2012 05:37 PM)Vosur Wrote:  
(02-08-2012 03:34 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  You're dealing with infinite here, though.

What you're saying is linear... "This because of this does that."

When in reality its, "This is this therefore that is that because of this."

I know that's confusing, but it's the end of the day and my brain is melted. Let me know if you don't understand.
Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?


?

You're right.
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02-08-2012, 10:21 PM
RE: Christian responses to Leviticus et. al?
There are a couple things usually said in defense of the Old Testament laws that have been discarded.

The first thing is that the New Testament "trumps" the OT. For example, adulterers are no longer murdered because Jesus defended one ("Let he who is without sin cast the first stone"). However, there are some laws (like the anti-gay laws that you pointed out) that are still followed, so how does one separate the laws that have been replaced and those that have not? Jesus didn't defend women who had sex before marriage, and yet Christians don't believe that we should murder them. They do, however, still think that murderers and rapists should die for their sins, so Jesus' defense of the adulteress didn't cover them.

The best argument against this idea is to point out the New Testament directly contradicts this idea.

Quote:I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.


The second defense is that the Jews lived in a different time and place, and so they lived by different laws. In discussions of ethics, this is called "moral relativism", and Christians don't argue that morals are relative in any other context.

The best argument against this idea is to point out that tribes like the Jews still exist. Should these cultures ignore the NT and instead live by the OT because they're living in a time and place similar to that of the Jews? Christians will obviously answer "no" (because if they didn't, that creates a whole new mess of problems for them).

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03-08-2012, 11:50 AM
RE: Christian responses to Leviticus et. al?
(02-08-2012 03:36 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  
(02-08-2012 03:34 PM)kingschosen Wrote:  You're dealing with infinite here, though.

What you're saying is linear... "This because of this does that."

When in reality its, "This is this therefore that is that because of this."

I know that's confusing, but it's the end of the day and my brain is melted. Let me know if you don't understand.
The fuck?

Okay... let's try this again.

You said:
If God is all knowing, he knows his decisions in the future, if God knows EVERYTHING he can't have free will. And if God doesn't have the ability of free will, he is not all powerful.

Under the assumption that God is omniscient and omnipotent, then one cannot cancel the other out; if so, then He was never one of them.

Under a finite premise of existence, one cannot be omnipotent and be omniscient because that person would be subjugated to his own omnipotence or omniscient - this would either remove his free will or remove his absolute knowledge. This is linear thinking.

Under an infinite premise of existence, one must be omnipotent to be omniscient since his omniscience is directly affected by his omnipotence and vice verse. The two are dependent on each other in order to function. You cannot have one without the other. This is circular thinking.

And no, circular thinking isn't "bad" in this instance. Circular thinking is used correctly when talking about things that are infinite... hence, the name.

Under the assumption that God has always existed, has always known what was going to happen, and has always had absolute power; then God's power coincides with His knowledge.

His power had no starting point; likewise, neither did His knowledge. They both always were. His knowledge was based on His power, and His power was based on His knowledge.

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03-08-2012, 11:55 AM
RE: Christian responses to Leviticus et. al?
(03-08-2012 11:50 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(02-08-2012 03:36 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  The fuck?

Okay... let's try this again.

You said:
If God is all knowing, he knows his decisions in the future, if God knows EVERYTHING he can't have free will. And if God doesn't have the ability of free will, he is not all powerful.

Under the assumption that God is omniscient and omnipotent, then one cannot cancel the other out; if so, then He was never one of them.

Under a finite premise of existence, one cannot be omnipotent and be omniscient because that person would be subjugated to his own omnipotence or omniscient - this would either remove his free will or remove his absolute knowledge. This is linear thinking.

Under an infinite premise of existence, one must be omnipotent to be omniscient since his omniscience is directly affected by his omnipotence and vice verse. The two are dependent on each other in order to function. You cannot have one without the other. This is circular thinking.

And no, circular thinking isn't "bad" in this instance. Circular thinking is used correctly when talking about things that are infinite... hence, the name.

Under the assumption that God has always existed, has always known what was going to happen, and has always had absolute power; then God's power coincides with His knowledge.

His power had no starting point; likewise, neither did His knowledge. They both always were. His knowledge was based on His power, and His power was based on His knowledge.

Dude, You make assumptions, and they do cancel out eachother..... You haven't an infinte therefore circular reasoning is forfeit....

Your post makes absolutely NO sense.

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03-08-2012, 11:57 AM
RE: Christian responses to Leviticus et. al?
(03-08-2012 11:55 AM)Atothetheist Wrote:  
(03-08-2012 11:50 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Okay... let's try this again.

You said:
If God is all knowing, he knows his decisions in the future, if God knows EVERYTHING he can't have free will. And if God doesn't have the ability of free will, he is not all powerful.

Under the assumption that God is omniscient and omnipotent, then one cannot cancel the other out; if so, then He was never one of them.

Under a finite premise of existence, one cannot be omnipotent and be omniscient because that person would be subjugated to his own omnipotence or omniscient - this would either remove his free will or remove his absolute knowledge. This is linear thinking.

Under an infinite premise of existence, one must be omnipotent to be omniscient since his omniscience is directly affected by his omnipotence and vice verse. The two are dependent on each other in order to function. You cannot have one without the other. This is circular thinking.

And no, circular thinking isn't "bad" in this instance. Circular thinking is used correctly when talking about things that are infinite... hence, the name.

Under the assumption that God has always existed, has always known what was going to happen, and has always had absolute power; then God's power coincides with His knowledge.

His power had no starting point; likewise, neither did His knowledge. They both always were. His knowledge was based on His power, and His power was based on His knowledge.

Dude, You make assumptions, and they do cancel out eachother..... You haven't an infinte therefore circular reasoning is forfeit....

Your post makes absolutely NO sense.

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03-08-2012, 11:59 AM
RE: Christian responses to Leviticus et. al?
(03-08-2012 11:50 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(02-08-2012 03:36 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  The fuck?

Okay... let's try this again.

You said:
If God is all knowing, he knows his decisions in the future, if God knows EVERYTHING he can't have free will. And if God doesn't have the ability of free will, he is not all powerful.

Under the assumption that God is omniscient and omnipotent, then one cannot cancel the other out; if so, then He was never one of them.

Under a finite premise of existence, one cannot be omnipotent and be omniscient because that person would be subjugated to his own omnipotence or omniscient - this would either remove his free will or remove his absolute knowledge. This is linear thinking.

Under an infinite premise of existence, one must be omnipotent to be omniscient since his omniscience is directly affected by his omnipotence and vice verse. The two are dependent on each other in order to function. You cannot have one without the other. This is circular thinking.

And no, circular thinking isn't "bad" in this instance. Circular thinking is used correctly when talking about things that are infinite... hence, the name.

Under the assumption that God has always existed, has always known what was going to happen, and has always had absolute power; then God's power coincides with His knowledge.

His power had no starting point; likewise, neither did His knowledge. They both always were. His knowledge was based on His power, and His power was based on His knowledge.

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03-08-2012, 12:07 PM
RE: Christian responses to Leviticus et. al?
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