Christian vs. Humanist Morality
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26-11-2016, 11:43 PM
Christian vs. Humanist Morality
On The Atheist Experience, Episode #452, 1:04-1:06”, Keryn Glasser offered a good, if somewhat over-simplified, explanation for the source of the different epistemological orientations of theistic believers and atheistic non-believers:

“There are two ways you can raise a kid. You can raise a kid so that when you set rules. You explain to them why they should follow those rules, like, you shouldn't leave the refrigerator open, because it costs so much money when the refrigerator keeps trying to cool itself and then we'll go broke; you shouldn't leave all the lights on because it will raise up the electric bill; you shouldn't leave the door open, because the house will get hot; you shouldn't do drugs, because you might get all these diseases and illness and, blah-blah-blah; you shouldn't have sex, because of this reason; blah-blah-blah-blah, or you can be the kind of parent who says, 'You shouldn't do this, that, or the other, because I SAID SO!'

“What's going to happen with the one is that, when they grow up, they're going to understand why all these things are bad. They're going to go out in the community, and they're going to follow all the rules. What's going to happen with the other is that they're going to go out into the community and they're going to think, 'At last, FREEDOM. I don't have to obey my parents, anymore, because I'm not living under their house.' (sic) They're going to do everything wrong until they figure out for themselves why those things are actually wrong.

“It's the same with Christianity. One big problem that Christians have with atheists is that they can't figure out why, if you weren't terrified by the wrath of God, why you wouldn't go out and rape and steal and pillage and kill. Because—I'm guessing—that's the first thing they'd do if they lost God.

“Not to that extreme, but I happen to know a doctor who asked me that question, and I said, 'You're a doctor. Don't you think that healing and taking care of...I mean, would you kill people if you lost God. And he said HELL. YEAH!'

This offers an explanation of why religious people and Christians, in particular, generally insist on legalistically adhering to a dogma (which is accepted on faith) instead of making the effort to think for themselves.

Apologetics, rather than just being the attempt to justify belief in a dogma, is the attempt to justify encroachments on that dogma, such as, in the case of some Christian denominations, “I am a sinner, but my sins are forgiven through the sacrifice of Jesus, so I am not under condemnation for my sin”. In other words, “The devil makes me do it!” This is nothing less than the abrogation of personal responsibility—a mindset that has always been and continues to be the source of much damage to world society.

What forgiveness for sins, while satisfying a narcissistic self-concern, fails to take into consideration is the harm done to others. It doesn't matter how many Christs die on a cross, the harm done to others cannot be undone and one's responsibility for causing that harm cannot be erased. Non-believers, at least, those with a humanistic morality, do take the interests of others, along with the self, as a primary consideration.

As Ghandi stated, “I do not seek redemption from the consequences of sin, I seek to be redeemed from sin, itself”.

If we believe absurdities, we shall commit atrocities.--Voltaire.

"To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason is like administering medicine to the dead." --Thomas Paine.
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27-11-2016, 08:33 AM
RE: Christian vs. Humanist Morality
Great text Wannabe, thank you for that...

Also great signature quotes.

That which can be destroyed by the truth should be.”
-P.C. Hodgell - Seeker’s Mask - Kirien
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27-11-2016, 01:23 PM
Christian vs. Humanist Morality
Humanist morality at best amounts to suggesting that we shouldn't do X, because it makes you uncomfortable, or it makes you feel bad.

Not sure why so many atheists who've abandon the shackles of religion, try and trade it in for the shackles of morality.

Just do you, regardless if others think it's moral or not.


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"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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27-11-2016, 02:07 PM
RE: Christian vs. Humanist Morality
That is a rather simplistic and ignorant portrayal of humanist morality. Are you intentionally insulting?
Versions of the Golden Rule form the basis - others have the same rights that I do, so I treat them the way I want to be treated.
It's pretty straightforward.
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28-11-2016, 12:23 AM
RE: Christian vs. Humanist Morality
I was talking to my wife about a Magnabosco video I watched and the religious dude basically says believing in God is what can keep someone from running over there and bashing a dudes head in for no reason.

My first thought when hearing him say this was that Magnabosco should exit the area and cease the street epistemology he was performing on this guy immediately which might save lives. My second thought was that a higher than need be percentage of believers probably empathize with this man. How moral is this? On a scale of 1 to 10 with 1 being the lowest scum type behavior one can take part in on earth one can argue bashing a man's head in for no reason is easily a 1. Well my ideals keep me far from this point on the scale simply because I could not fathom beating someone in this way through all the blood curdling screams and thoughts of this man's wife and kids I'm destroying. Not because of some belief in a God where if absent these types of events might have some justification and purpose in this world. So who's closer to 1 again?
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28-11-2016, 02:26 AM
RE: Christian vs. Humanist Morality
(27-11-2016 01:23 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  Humanist morality at best amounts to suggesting that we shouldn't do X, because it makes you uncomfortable, or it makes you feel bad.


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And with that response you've failed to grasp or indeed refute any of the points made by the OP.

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28-11-2016, 01:44 PM
RE: Christian vs. Humanist Morality
(27-11-2016 01:23 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  Humanist morality at best amounts to suggesting that we shouldn't do X, because it makes you uncomfortable, or it makes you feel bad.

Not sure why so many atheists who've abandon the shackles of religion, try and trade it in for the shackles of morality.

Just do you, regardless if others think it's moral or not.


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It looks like peddling the same ignorant preachy bullshit hasn't won anyone over. In fact, looking at your rep it would appear that more people are calling you out on all your BS. Laughat

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
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28-11-2016, 02:54 PM
RE: Christian vs. Humanist Morality
(27-11-2016 02:07 PM)Rik Wrote:  Versions of the Golden Rule form the basis - others have the same rights that I do, so I treat them the way I want to be treated.
It's pretty straightforward.
It's not that straight forward though.

How is it that you determine what is a right and what isn't a right.
You are taking something to be "sacred" (that which you call rights) and assuming all other people should know and honour those rights.


The first part of the OP wasn't about finding something sacred, it was about thinking through the consequences. I don't do X because the consequence is Y and I want to avoid Y so it makes sense not to do X.
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04-12-2016, 12:17 PM
RE: Christian vs. Humanist Morality
Christianity contains as its central thesis, a humanist, rational moral concept, "do unto others" and a moral philosophy which is Epicurean. The rest is a story about someone with references to some religion in Syria he is preaching to and a fictional/fictionallized account of "his" life, whoever he is.

A god is irrelevant to Christian or Epicurean ethics and can stand alone.
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04-12-2016, 03:45 PM
RE: Christian vs. Humanist Morality
(27-11-2016 01:23 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  Humanist morality at best amounts to suggesting that we shouldn't do X, because it makes you uncomfortable, or it makes you feel bad.

Not sure why so many atheists who've abandon the shackles of religion, try and trade it in for the shackles of morality.

Just do you, regardless if others think it's moral or not.


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Huh!

We are genetically wired (as social beings) to be uncomfortable doing X.

Morality is good, but religious morality, which is largely a bag of bullshit, is not good and needs to be dumped. If you want to dance, dance; if you want to get a tatoo, get a tatoo; if you want to eat shellfish, eat shellfish; etc.

Is there such a thing as a Christian Nihilist? Tomasia, I think you qualify. Humanists believe in behaving in an ethical manner.

If we believe absurdities, we shall commit atrocities.--Voltaire.

"To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason is like administering medicine to the dead." --Thomas Paine.
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