Christian vs. Humanist Morality
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03-02-2017, 11:43 AM
RE: Christian vs. Humanist Morality
(03-02-2017 11:41 AM)jennybee Wrote:  
(03-02-2017 10:41 AM)Christian Philosophy Wrote:  God bless you...

No thank you. FSM disapproves of this message Wink And I for one, do not want to be boiled for my sins in a pasta cooker. So away with your blasphemy of the noodley spirit!

May the Noodle be forever upon you.

I thought I already addressed this. The flying spaghetti monster isn't coherent. The first cause can't be material.

"I think part of the appeal of mathematical logic is that the formulas look mysterious - you write backward Es!" - Hilary Putnam
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03-02-2017, 11:44 AM
RE: Christian vs. Humanist Morality
(03-02-2017 11:38 AM)Naielis Wrote:  
(03-02-2017 11:15 AM)kemo boy Wrote:  I don't know about Banjo, but where, exactly, are you trying to get to? We've heard these arguments for years (for many, decades). They're nothing new. Do you expect to hear, "Wow, we've never looked at it this way - you may be right!". Not gonna happen. Most of us have been exposed to these weak arguments for at least as long as you've been alive.

If you're unwilling to change your mind, why are you here?

Its an atheist forum folks are here for a host of reasons some for friendship and support being as America especially is a hostile environment for non believers, some to engage in debate certainly some to educate and spread the good news of atheism to passing believersBig Grin
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03-02-2017, 11:50 AM
RE: Christian vs. Humanist Morality
(03-02-2017 11:44 AM)adey67 Wrote:  
(03-02-2017 11:38 AM)Naielis Wrote:  If you're unwilling to change your mind, why are you here?

Its an atheist forum folks are here for a host of reasons some for friendship and support being as America especially is a hostile environment for non believers, some to engage in debate certainly some to educate and spread the good news of atheism to passing believersBig Grin

I'm not here to educate. I'm here to learn. When you enter a conversation with the intent to teach, you assume you are a posession of knowledge that grants you that ability. This seems very arrogant. I understand that this forum has other uses. But I was referring to the Atheism vs Theism section. This is clearly a place for discussion.

"I think part of the appeal of mathematical logic is that the formulas look mysterious - you write backward Es!" - Hilary Putnam
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03-02-2017, 11:53 AM
RE: Christian vs. Humanist Morality
[Image: circular_reasoning.gif]

"If you don't have a seat at the table, you're probably on the menu."

[Image: parodia-michal-aniol-flying-spaghetti-monster.jpg]
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03-02-2017, 11:56 AM
RE: Christian vs. Humanist Morality
(03-02-2017 11:53 AM)ShadowProject Wrote:  [Image: circular_reasoning.gif]

That would be a bad argument wouldn't it.

"I think part of the appeal of mathematical logic is that the formulas look mysterious - you write backward Es!" - Hilary Putnam
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03-02-2017, 11:57 AM
RE: Christian vs. Humanist Morality
(03-02-2017 11:32 AM)Naielis Wrote:  
(03-02-2017 10:49 AM)unfogged Wrote:  I would say that it isn't that there isn't a valid argument but that no argument presented so far has been valid; at least none that I am aware of.

I have seen you make many assertions in this thread. If you made an argument for the existence of anything "necessary", let alone a "being", please point out where it was. It might help if you first define what you mean by "necessary" since others have used it in a way that required equivocation on the meaning.

I'll give the links gave earlier as well as a few others. There's quite a bit of material on this on IEP and Stanford. https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/modality-varieties/
http://www.iep.utm.edu/mod-meta/
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/cosmo...-argument/
http://www.iep.utm.edu/religion/
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/ontol...arguments/
http://www.iep.utm.edu/trans-ar/
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/trans...arguments/

That's not what I thought you meant when you said that you had made arguments; do YOU have an argument or are you just here to post links to well-worn arguments that are not convincing unless you have a presupposition that there is a god?

I'll ask again. What do YOU mean when you talk about a "necessary being"? Does "necessary" simply mean non-contingent or does it mean required or both? Why, even if I accepted that something had to be non-contingent, or even required, does it have to be a "being"?

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03-02-2017, 11:59 AM
RE: Christian vs. Humanist Morality
(03-02-2017 11:50 AM)Naielis Wrote:  
(03-02-2017 11:44 AM)adey67 Wrote:  Its an atheist forum folks are here for a host of reasons some for friendship and support being as America especially is a hostile environment for non believers, some to engage in debate certainly some to educate and spread the good news of atheism to passing believersBig Grin

I'm not here to educate. I'm here to learn. When you enter a conversation with the intent to teach, you assume you are a posession of knowledge that grants you that ability. This seems very arrogant. I understand that this forum has other uses. But I was referring to the Atheism vs Theism section. This is clearly a place for discussion.

Ah got it thanks for the explanation I was speaking kinda tongue in cheek to be fair the emoticon was intended to show this, its just that so many of the arguments we hear are old have been debunked countless times before atheism v theism the clue is in the v it can be adversarial I'm not sure its necessarily a good place to be either to educate or get educated if I'm honest.
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03-02-2017, 12:00 PM
RE: Christian vs. Humanist Morality
(03-02-2017 11:38 AM)Naielis Wrote:  
(03-02-2017 11:15 AM)kemo boy Wrote:  I don't know about Banjo, but where, exactly, are you trying to get to? We've heard these arguments for years (for many, decades). They're nothing new. Do you expect to hear, "Wow, we've never looked at it this way - you may be right!". Not gonna happen. Most of us have been exposed to these weak arguments for at least as long as you've been alive.

If you're unwilling to change your mind, why are you here?

He did not say he wasn't willing to change his mind. He said that you have not presented anything that we haven't already considered and rejected.


(03-02-2017 11:43 AM)Naielis Wrote:  I thought I already addressed this. The flying spaghetti monster isn't coherent. The first cause can't be material.

What do YOU mean by "material"? How exactly can something that is not material be the cause of something that is?

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03-02-2017, 12:04 PM
RE: Christian vs. Humanist Morality
At work.

(03-02-2017 11:43 AM)Naielis Wrote:  
(03-02-2017 11:41 AM)jennybee Wrote:  No thank you. FSM disapproves of this message Wink And I for one, do not want to be boiled for my sins in a pasta cooker. So away with your blasphemy of the noodley spirit!

May the Noodle be forever upon you.

I thought I already addressed this. The flying spaghetti monster isn't coherent. The first cause can't be material.

Then the resultant 'Im-material' does render itself immaterial.

Tongue

Also, see previous post/question. Thumbsup
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03-02-2017, 12:04 PM
RE: Christian vs. Humanist Morality
(03-02-2017 12:00 PM)unfogged Wrote:  
(03-02-2017 11:38 AM)Naielis Wrote:  If you're unwilling to change your mind, why are you here?

He did not say he wasn't willing to change his mind. He said that you have not presented anything that we haven't already considered and rejected.


(03-02-2017 11:43 AM)Naielis Wrote:  I thought I already addressed this. The flying spaghetti monster isn't coherent. The first cause can't be material.

What do YOU mean by "material"? How exactly can something that is not material be the cause of something that is?
I suspect because it conveniently removes the need for gods to be visible tangible or provable.
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