Christian vs. Humanist Morality
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03-02-2017, 01:54 PM
RE: Christian vs. Humanist Morality
(03-02-2017 01:47 PM)Naielis Wrote:  
(03-02-2017 12:17 PM)jennybee Wrote:  And an invisible genie who lives in a mansion in the clouds is coherent?

When did I mention an invisible genie? Or a mansion? Or clouds?

*Pssst!* It's a joke, son. A bit of a giggle is all. Thumbsup

Also.

(03-02-2017 09:38 AM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  Hello Naielis! Big Grin

(02-02-2017 02:52 PM)Naielis Wrote:  ...... I have evidence for the necessary being.......

Cool! What is your evidence?

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03-02-2017, 01:58 PM
RE: Christian vs. Humanist Morality
(03-02-2017 12:32 PM)Astreja Wrote:  When it gets right down to it, I find all philosophical arguments for gods utterly unbelievable. If such an entity exists, I want something more accessible and testable -- actual physical evidence that points directly to the god itself and to no other possibilities.

Until and unless such a thing shows up, I have no reason to entertain believers' hypotheses in that regard. None. I will treat such arguments as a de facto admission that there is no physical evidence to be had, and that their deity is thereby functionally indistinguishable from a flight of the imagination. Quite frankly, if I ever had to believe in an imaginary being it would be simpler to just grab a sheet of paper and invent one of my own, which would be much more satisfying than adopting someone else's imaginary friend.

So I assume you reject mathematics then? That's a priori and has nothing to do with a posteriori analysis. For any working worldview, one must have a cogent epistemology. You just keep repeating "physical evidence". Evidence? Physical? How do you know the physical world exists? How do you know any result from a scientific experiment isn't just random chance? How do you know anything? If you can't answer these, science is irrelevant. You're just asserting that science is the way without justifying it. I posed the problem of induction earlier. The only response I got was that we just assume laws. Great. I'll assume god then.

"I think part of the appeal of mathematical logic is that the formulas look mysterious - you write backward Es!" - Hilary Putnam
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03-02-2017, 01:59 PM
RE: Christian vs. Humanist Morality
(03-02-2017 01:54 PM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  
(03-02-2017 01:47 PM)Naielis Wrote:  When did I mention an invisible genie? Or a mansion? Or clouds?

*Pssst!* It's a joke, son. A bit of a giggle is all. Thumbsup

Also.

(03-02-2017 09:38 AM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  Hello Naielis! Big Grin


Cool! What is your evidence?

Thumbsup

Links in a previous post.

"I think part of the appeal of mathematical logic is that the formulas look mysterious - you write backward Es!" - Hilary Putnam
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03-02-2017, 02:01 PM
RE: Christian vs. Humanist Morality
(03-02-2017 01:49 PM)Naielis Wrote:  
(03-02-2017 01:36 PM)kemo boy Wrote:  To see the amazing amount of effort some people put into tying to justify their emotional beliefs, of course!

I'm willing to change my mind. But you have nothing that would make me consider it. But you seem unwilling to even admit you might be wrong.

Of course I could be wrong. I'm an agnostic theist. What do you mean I'm unwilling to admit it? That issue never came up.

I haven't seen any sign you would even consider that you're wrong. You are wrong on the special pleading part, but you won't admit it.
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03-02-2017, 02:01 PM
RE: Christian vs. Humanist Morality
(03-02-2017 01:59 PM)Naielis Wrote:  
(03-02-2017 01:54 PM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  *Pssst!* It's a joke, son. A bit of a giggle is all. Thumbsup

Also.


Thumbsup

Links in a previous post.

An argument isn't evidence.
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03-02-2017, 02:03 PM
RE: Christian vs. Humanist Morality
(03-02-2017 01:59 PM)Naielis Wrote:  
(03-02-2017 01:54 PM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  *Pssst!* It's a joke, son. A bit of a giggle is all. Thumbsup

Also.


Thumbsup

Links in a previous post.

Sad

I'm sorry.... I missed it.

Could you link back to it please?
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03-02-2017, 02:06 PM
RE: Christian vs. Humanist Morality
(03-02-2017 02:03 PM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  Sad

I'm sorry.... I missed it.

Could you link back to it please?

https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/modality-varieties/
http://www.iep.utm.edu/mod-meta/
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/cosmo...-argument/
http://www.iep.utm.edu/religion/
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/ontol...arguments/
http://www.iep.utm.edu/trans-ar/
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/trans...arguments/

"I think part of the appeal of mathematical logic is that the formulas look mysterious - you write backward Es!" - Hilary Putnam
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03-02-2017, 02:12 PM (This post was last modified: 03-02-2017 02:21 PM by Peebothuhul.)
RE: Christian vs. Humanist Morality
While I have a little time before bed and looking forwards to Naielis posting their link back to their answer to myself I'll have a go at this one.

Sorry Astreja. Blush

(03-02-2017 01:58 PM)Naielis Wrote:  .... You Astreja) just keep repeating "physical evidence". Evidence? Physical? How do you know the physical world exists? How do you know any result from a scientific experiment isn't just random chance? How do you know anything? If you can't answer these, science is irrelevant. You're just asserting that science is the way without justifying it. I posed the problem of induction earlier. The only response I got was that we just assume laws. Great. I'll assume god then.

Okay so "How do I (Peebo) know the physical world exists?"

Because I have no cause to think other wise. Seriously, suggest a method/experiment/event/*Insert your own idea here* way of testing "How is reality what it is." or, with a successful test, how reality is not what it is.

Also, I'm not a Solipsist ( Yay for big words! Blush )
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03-02-2017, 02:15 PM
RE: Christian vs. Humanist Morality
(03-02-2017 02:06 PM)Naielis Wrote:  
(03-02-2017 02:03 PM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  Sad

I'm sorry.... I missed it.

Could you link back to it please?

https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/modality-varieties/
http://www.iep.utm.edu/mod-meta/
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/cosmo...-argument/
http://www.iep.utm.edu/religion/
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/ontol...arguments/
http://www.iep.utm.edu/trans-ar/
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/trans...arguments/

Unsure

Um... having read through a very small amount of two of those links....

They're.. not evidence.

Also, they're not your evidence.. they're some one else's work/words.

Unless you're a really talented young sprat? Tongue

They're arguments... or perhaps the right term is 'Discussions'... Consider

So, Naielis? Are you saying all you have are arguments for or against something? Consider
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03-02-2017, 02:16 PM
RE: Christian vs. Humanist Morality
(03-02-2017 01:58 PM)Naielis Wrote:  So I assume you reject mathematics then?

No; I think mathematics is fine. With math I can actually do useful things in the real world, and have a great deal of fun doing so. I've calculated fret spacing for a dulcimer builder using the twelfth root of 2, and resized a child-sized Alice in Wonderland dress pattern for an adult. I've also done utterly spectacular things with geometry, as anyone who has ever visited my house can attest.

Your alleged god -- not so useful. Can't use that concept for bugger-all; in fact, believers can't seem to use it with any consistency either, which is where that pathetic "yes/no/wait" rationalization of failed prayer probably originated.

I'm sorry, but your beliefs are much too silly to take seriously. Got anything else we can discuss?
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