Christian vs. Humanist Morality
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04-02-2017, 01:15 PM
RE: Christian vs. Humanist Morality
(04-02-2017 12:34 PM)adey67 Wrote:  Science its unbelievably amazing yet still we have tossers who either doubt its validity or its amazing abilities wtf how can educated people be so dumb ?

I disagree.

Religion is unbelievably amazing.
Science is believably amazing.

Yes

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04-02-2017, 03:26 PM
RE: Christian vs. Humanist Morality
(04-02-2017 09:13 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  I know this because I see. So do you. I know that people with eye diseases come to the hospital (and so do you) and can't see without eyes. You know what the world is without philosophy. You LEARNED and validated it in countless ways before you ever heard the word "philosophy". Philosophy may help you explain to yourself what you think you know. It actually teaches you nothing about reality. Critical thinking does not appear to be your strong suit.

Ok let me put this as kindly as I can. You are not being intelligent with my arguments here. You simply assume that your sight is valid. You have no justification. You just assert it and hope no one notices. You think the fact that I can learn things means philosophy is useless? What? How does that conclusion even come close to following from the premise? Then you have the audacity to throw around insults about other people's critical thinking? You're being extremely dismissive and rude. I can't converse with people if they not conversing with me. You refuse to have any fruitful conversation. If you decide that you want to take argument seriously, then please let me know.

"I think part of the appeal of mathematical logic is that the formulas look mysterious - you write backward Es!" - Hilary Putnam
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04-02-2017, 03:32 PM
RE: Christian vs. Humanist Morality
(04-02-2017 01:15 PM)DLJ Wrote:  
(04-02-2017 12:34 PM)adey67 Wrote:  Science its unbelievably amazing yet still we have tossers who either doubt its validity or its amazing abilities wtf how can educated people be so dumb ?

I disagree.

Religion is unbelievably amazing.
Science is believably amazing.

Yes

What can I say you're right as usual mate spot on.
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04-02-2017, 03:38 PM
RE: Christian vs. Humanist Morality
(04-02-2017 03:26 PM)Naielis Wrote:  
(04-02-2017 09:13 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  I know this because I see. So do you. I know that people with eye diseases come to the hospital (and so do you) and can't see without eyes. You know what the world is without philosophy. You LEARNED and validated it in countless ways before you ever heard the word "philosophy". Philosophy may help you explain to yourself what you think you know. It actually teaches you nothing about reality. Critical thinking does not appear to be your strong suit.

Ok let me put this as kindly as I can. You are not being intelligent with my arguments here. You simply assume that your sight is valid. You have no justification. You just assert it and hope no one notices. You think the fact that I can learn things means philosophy is useless? What? How does that conclusion even come close to following from the premise? Then you have the audacity to throw around insults about other people's critical thinking? You're being extremely dismissive and rude. I can't converse with people if they not conversing with me. You refuse to have any fruitful conversation. If you decide that you want to take argument seriously, then please let me know.

We do not assume it is valid. We test it against the proposition that it is not valid. That is why science is more important than philosophy, and why they referred to your ideas as "navel-gazing". You can sit around and ponder "what ifs" and "how do you knows" all day, but in the end what matter is what is testable and verifiable to the maximum extent possible, given the basic set of assumptions that our senses are valid-- because so what if they're not, when we still receive a consistent response to the tests?

You're going to do a lot of work, learning all this philosophy, and in the end all you'll come to is realizing that you've learned to ask a lot of essentially irrelevant questions and gotten equally irrelevant answers.

[Image: e20df4b016db52c12cc7a82a6d92c8746816527c...2ab05c.jpg]

When you then deign to condescend to us, as though we dismiss your arguments for failure to understand them, you're going to get glib condescension in return.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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04-02-2017, 03:51 PM
RE: Christian vs. Humanist Morality
(04-02-2017 11:51 AM)adey67 Wrote:  Thanks guys I was beginning to doubt my sanity, its good to hear others consider philosophy a load of old wank, cos it is.

Philosophy is a great thing. The institution of philosophy is terrible.

Philosophers have been elitist and pretentious since the field first came up. Since philosophy is basically defined as Deep Thinking ™, and is expected to be things that are hard for most people to understand, it's very easy for idiots who simply happen to have expansive vocabularies to pass themselves off as intellectual among philosophy crowds. Even more so because of the abstract nature of most philosophy.

The thing is, though, that your average Philosophy major isn't actually any more intelligent than anyone else. They are, however, usually better at making themselves sound smarter, and the insular nature of the philosophy community means that people who applaud others' nonsensical pretentiousness get applauded in return. And, on top of that, most philosophy is written as a post hoc attempt to justify what someone already believes.

So you end up with huge swathes of it that are complete idiocy and gibberish, and exist only to make people feel smarter than anybody else. Good philosophy exists, but the reputation it has is mostly from people having to deal with the crowds and crowds and crowds of idiots who don't really know what they're doing, but have easy access to a thesaurus and too much ego for their own good.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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04-02-2017, 03:56 PM
RE: Christian vs. Humanist Morality
(04-02-2017 03:38 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  That is why science is more important than philosophy, and why they referred to your ideas as "navel-gazing". You can sit around and ponder "what ifs" and "how do you knows" all day, but in the end what matter is what is testable and verifiable to the maximum extent possible, given the basic set of assumptions that our senses are valid-- because so what if they're not, when we still receive a consistent response to the tests?

You're going to do a lot of work, learning all this philosophy, and in the end all you'll come to is realizing that you've learned to ask a lot of essentially irrelevant questions and gotten equally irrelevant answers.

Essentially, yep.

The thing is that philosophy has moved on. Questions like "how do you know the universe is real?" haven't been relevant for literally thousands of years because of exactly this issue - in the end, it comes down to "so what?".

"The universe could be an illusion!"

Well, then we're studying an illusion that acts exactly like a universe and the only distinction you can make is purely semantic. So what?

"You can't prove that the entire universe isn't entirely random and can't ever be sure that the behavior will be consistent next time!"

It's been provably consistent thus far, which means that all this comes down to is the most pedantic and infinitesimal amount of doubt that you can crowbar in - again, via nothing but semantic games. So what?

And so on.

No one cares any more. But there are always people who keep trying to bring this sort of stuff up like it's new and world-shattering.

"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
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04-02-2017, 03:56 PM
RE: Christian vs. Humanist Morality
I've lost interest in this debate with a 17 year old. However, I have NOT forgotten the slander about me delivered by Tomasia. I still want evidence of this PM.

So far there has been none.

If not I'm going to sue that motherfucker.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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04-02-2017, 05:42 PM
RE: Christian vs. Humanist Morality
(03-02-2017 11:43 PM)Naielis Wrote:  Agnostic atheist generally means you are unsure of whether god exists but you do not believe.

That's not how I see the "agnostic" part at all. As I might have mentioned, I am a strong agnostic. I believe that it is simply not possible to determine whether or not an entity actually is a god. At best, one can say that something is a god-like being.

I am a weak atheist regarding the possible existence of god-like beings: I think that there could be such a thing somewhere in the universe, but also think that it's quite unlikely.

I am a strong atheist regarding the god described in the Bible. It's a ludicrous character, incompetent and inconsistent in its behaviour, and totally unbelievable.

I'm sorry, but your beliefs are much too silly to take seriously. Got anything else we can discuss?
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04-02-2017, 05:46 PM
RE: Christian vs. Humanist Morality
(04-02-2017 03:56 PM)Banjo Wrote:  I've lost interest in this debate with a 17 year old. However, I have NOT forgotten the slander about me delivered by Tomasia. I still want evidence of this PM.

So far there has been none.

If not I'm going to sue that motherfucker.

If it were me, I'd sue too. Even if there had been a PM, it isn't the kind of thing one blurts out in a public forum -- It's the kind of thing one brings to Admin attention.

I'm sorry, but your beliefs are much too silly to take seriously. Got anything else we can discuss?
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04-02-2017, 05:50 PM
RE: Christian vs. Humanist Morality
(03-02-2017 11:52 PM)Naielis Wrote:  I agree that {science} works. I don't agree that we should assume it works.

Make. Up. Your. Mind. Either something works or it does not.

I'm sorry, but your beliefs are much too silly to take seriously. Got anything else we can discuss?
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