Christian vs. Humanist Morality
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05-02-2017, 10:06 AM
RE: Christian vs. Humanist Morality
(05-02-2017 01:18 AM)Banjo Wrote:  He's 17. He'll grow out of it. I was a cocky bastard at 17 too, I'm sure.

Still are. Angel

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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05-02-2017, 10:07 AM
RE: Christian vs. Humanist Morality
(05-02-2017 09:46 AM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Put another way, there may not be any physical evidence for any god, however if the concept of "god" is relevant in any way, one would expect to see some (any at all) evidence for it's activity. There is none. And given the definitions theists give god, ("loving" etc) one would expect *intervention* on some level. There is none.

Epicurus
“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?”

Quote:Do you think physical evidence is necessary in every justification?

What is non-physical "evidence", how would it even be detected by physical beings ?

I find it ironic he came to his conclusions through research and reading done probably mostly on the internet using a computer both of which would not exist but for the science he loftily seems to espouse as secondary and subservient to his philosophical views.
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05-02-2017, 10:11 AM
RE: Christian vs. Humanist Morality
(05-02-2017 01:18 AM)Banjo Wrote:  He's 17. He'll grow out of it. I was a cocky bastard at 17 too, I'm sure.

Isn't that pretty much the definition of 17?

When I was ten, I thought my parents knew everything. When I became twenty, I was convinced they knew nothing. Then, at thirty, I realized I was right when I was ten. - Twain

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
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05-02-2017, 10:11 AM
RE: Christian vs. Humanist Morality
(05-02-2017 04:52 AM)Naielis Wrote:  But, like all people, you've ingrained your beliefs into your ego. They've come to define you.

[Image: 01-pot-calls-kettle-black.jpg]

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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05-02-2017, 10:13 AM (This post was last modified: 05-02-2017 12:31 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Christian vs. Humanist Morality
(05-02-2017 12:05 AM)Naielis Wrote:  
(04-02-2017 11:47 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  I need no advice from you. Wikipedia is valid until you say why what's written in the article is wrong. No one is "hostile". You do not merit
"hostility". We've heard all this shit a million times. You think you're special. You're not. It's impatience. Yet another theist spouting the same old garbage we've heard a million times thinks it's a revelation to us.

This seems to be hostile.

It was harsh. You're right. Sorry.
I've been to Kentucky a few times.
The Abbott of Gethsemani (near Bardstown) is a friend of mine. We have had many "discussions". He thinks he's gonna 'save" me.
My ma races her horses sometimes at your tracks.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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05-02-2017, 10:29 AM
RE: Christian vs. Humanist Morality
(05-02-2017 04:52 AM)Naielis Wrote:  "So? What's wrong with that? What is morally wrong with doing damage to the world in your ethical system?" This was my first comment back on page 83. My tone wasn't sneering. It wasn't harsh. It wasn't condescending. All of you interpreted it that way.

If you understand that most of us took it that way then perhaps you can see that from our perspective you blundered into the room and took a cheap shot without first getting to know your audience.

Quote:Atheists condescend to theists everywhere they go like they're the damn master race. And then they have the audacity to act like they're the victims.

My irony meter is pegging.

Quote:I explain several times how I never employ special pleading. And yet this goes ignored.

It was not ignored. It was rejected because you are employing special pleading. It is buried under layers of talk about contingent and necessary things but it is there.

Quote:Why are you all so willing to just mindlessly attack someone when you haven't even talked to them in person. You haven't even heard most of my thoughts on these issues.

You've been asked repeatedly to explain why you accept these claims and you just tell us that you've studied it for years and it is true. If you aren't willing to express your thoughts then we aren't about to simply accept your delcarations of "fact".

Quote:I don't want to be in a conversation where I'm treated like a bad person from the very beginning because of what I believe about a god.

You were not treated the way you were because you believe in a god. You got the treatment because you simply declared that you were right and that we had no justification to disagree with you and you made that claim without knowing anything about who you were talking with and what they had studied. You acted like a jerk from your first post so you got treated like a jerk.

Quote:I'm done with this thread. The only mistake I made here was hoping I could have a decent conversation about reality.

You didn't want a conversation about reality. You wanted to explain to us how you had come to the correct conclusions about ultimate truth without ever getting off your ass and learning about how things actually work.

Quote:But, like all people, you've ingrained your beliefs into your ego. They've come to define you.

And the irony meter broke....

Quote:I won't waste my time any longer.

I'm actually sorry to see you go. You're obviously very intelligent and if you'd get off your high horse and actually be willing to talk about why you accept some of these claims instead of just being condescending because we don't immediately agree it might be interesting.

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05-02-2017, 10:54 AM
RE: Christian vs. Humanist Morality
I suppose I have zero respect for philosophical wankery, this is just Russel's teapot moved to "outside of space and time" and "immaterial" which looks like a deliberate construction of an argument to avoid falsifiability.

Why should anyone bother with such wankery? Is it worth more than two seconds of consideration followed by laughter?

And people go to college for this bullshit. Facepalm

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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05-02-2017, 10:57 AM
RE: Christian vs. Humanist Morality
(05-02-2017 10:29 AM)unfogged Wrote:  
(05-02-2017 04:52 AM)Naielis Wrote:  "So? What's wrong with that? What is morally wrong with doing damage to the world in your ethical system?" This was my first comment back on page 83. My tone wasn't sneering. It wasn't harsh. It wasn't condescending. All of you interpreted it that way.

If you understand that most of us took it that way then perhaps you can see that from our perspective you blundered into the room and took a cheap shot without first getting to know your audience.

Quote:Atheists condescend to theists everywhere they go like they're the damn master race. And then they have the audacity to act like they're the victims.

My irony meter is pegging.

Quote:I explain several times how I never employ special pleading. And yet this goes ignored.

It was not ignored. It was rejected because you are employing special pleading. It is buried under layers of talk about contingent and necessary things but it is there.

Quote:Why are you all so willing to just mindlessly attack someone when you haven't even talked to them in person. You haven't even heard most of my thoughts on these issues.

You've been asked repeatedly to explain why you accept these claims and you just tell us that you've studied it for years and it is true. If you aren't willing to express your thoughts then we aren't about to simply accept your delcarations of "fact".

Quote:I don't want to be in a conversation where I'm treated like a bad person from the very beginning because of what I believe about a god.

You were not treated the way you were because you believe in a god. You got the treatment because you simply declared that you were right and that we had no justification to disagree with you and you made that claim without knowing anything about who you were talking with and what they had studied. You acted like a jerk from your first post so you got treated like a jerk.

Quote:I'm done with this thread. The only mistake I made here was hoping I could have a decent conversation about reality.

You didn't want a conversation about reality. You wanted to explain to us how you had come to the correct conclusions about ultimate truth without ever getting off your ass and learning about how things actually work.

Quote:But, like all people, you've ingrained your beliefs into your ego. They've come to define you.

And the irony meter broke....

Quote:I won't waste my time any longer.

I'm actually sorry to see you go. You're obviously very intelligent and if you'd get off your high horse and actually be willing to talk about why you accept some of these claims instead of just being condescending because we don't immediately agree it might be interesting.

I'm sorry to see him go too but I am tired of extreme arrogance so I won't miss that. I'm fearful for his future at university, his hubris and intransigence coupled with a seemingly I'm superior attitude will not engender him to his fellow students and his refusal to submit to academic authority raises potential discipline problems. He simply will not take advice and seems to consider experience irrelevant and older people as an annoying distraction. How the hell does he expect to learn in an academic environment ? His behaviour is in part I believe due to insecurity, I mean its gotta be surely. He needs to get a grip I want better for any young man of good intelligence, otherwise its a waste.
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05-02-2017, 12:17 PM
RE: Christian vs. Humanist Morality
(05-02-2017 10:57 AM)adey67 Wrote:  I'm sorry to see him go too but I am tired of extreme arrogance so I won't miss that. I'm fearful for his future at university, his hubris and intransigence coupled with a seemingly I'm superior attitude will not engender him to his fellow students and his refusal to submit to academic authority raises potential discipline problems. He simply will not take advice and seems to consider experience irrelevant and older people as an annoying distraction. How the hell does he expect to learn in an academic environment ? His behaviour is in part I believe due to insecurity, I mean its gotta be surely. He needs to get a grip I want better for any young man of good intelligence, otherwise its a waste.

I don't know if it is that bad... if you don't think you know everything during your teens you are unusual.

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05-02-2017, 12:32 PM
RE: Christian vs. Humanist Morality
(05-02-2017 12:17 PM)unfogged Wrote:  
(05-02-2017 10:57 AM)adey67 Wrote:  I'm sorry to see him go too but I am tired of extreme arrogance so I won't miss that. I'm fearful for his future at university, his hubris and intransigence coupled with a seemingly I'm superior attitude will not engender him to his fellow students and his refusal to submit to academic authority raises potential discipline problems. He simply will not take advice and seems to consider experience irrelevant and older people as an annoying distraction. How the hell does he expect to learn in an academic environment ? His behaviour is in part I believe due to insecurity, I mean its gotta be surely. He needs to get a grip I want better for any young man of good intelligence, otherwise its a waste.

I don't know if it is that bad... if you don't think you know everything during your teens you are unusual.

Sure, but not to this extreme certainly my boys were not that bad for sure.
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