Christian vs. Humanist Morality
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
15-12-2016, 12:20 AM
RE: Christian vs. Humanist Morality
(14-12-2016 11:28 PM)socialistview Wrote:  Then read.
http://jewinthecity.com/2016/07/does-the...ern-times/

Might I recommend that you read your own links? The rabbi says:

Sexual assault is horrific, and the idea that it could even be even theoretically permitted in the Torah is very troubling. Thankfully, in today’s world, sexual assault is 100% forbidden by Jewish law. Unfortunately, in a very different era, thousands of years ago, the Torah permitted a way for a soldier at war to marry a woman in a city he conquered – against her will. As you will see, though, it went to great lengths to try to discourage this behavior.
The mitzvah called is isha yifas to’ar – “woman of attractive form” (Deuteronomy 21:10-14). In this mitzvah, a soldier in a time of war was permitted to abduct a girl (from the enemy) to whom he was attracted. He was supposed to give her a mourning period (of one month) for being taken from her family where she cries, shaved her head and let her nails grow out. The idea was that hopefully during this time where she was made less attractive to him, he would get over that initial urge he felt (the kind of raping-and-pillaging urge that came with many ancient wars), be able to think clearly, and send her back home. If he was still interested in her at the end of the mourning period, the Torah did permit him to convert and marry her, but it did not allow him to keep her as a servant, because even a captive from the enemy deserves human dignity.


Bold emphasis my own. As for the rest of the article, where he attempts to further explain that the point of the law was to try to mitigate the barbarity, he's full of shit. He's ignoring that it uses the phrase "humbled her", which means "has taken her virginity, rendering her worthless", in their Patriarchal culture (it's used in that way more explicitly, elsewhere in the Torah, to refer to taking a woman's virginity via rape). Note that even the rabbi making these apologies for the passage admits that it was against her will (the English word for "against her will" is rape) and that what matter is the level of attraction of the man, not the opinion of the woman.

He excuses this, somewhat, by saying that "unfortunately" it was just the way things were, thousands of years ago.

But it didn't have to be. The Torah commands the Israelites to do lots of things that were not common, back in the day. It commands them to circumcize their 8 day old boys. It commands them to avoid pork and shellfish (one of the ways we can tell if an archaeological dig site is Canaanite or Israelite is to look for pig bones, absent only from the Israelite city ruins), to not wear blended fibers, and a couple of hundred other things.

But it doesn't have the simple commands: Do not own slaves. Do not take women against their will.

"God" (or the priests claiming to be issuing the commands of this god of the Israelites) could easily have COMMANDED the people not to do those things. No apologetics necessary. God could have said "any man who takes a woman against her will is to be taken to the city gates and bludgeoned with rocks until he is dead".

But no, "God" reserved that penalty for people who questioned the faith (Deut. 17:2-5), who "blasphemed" (Deut. 24:10-16), spoke back to their fathers (Lev. 20:9 and Ex. 21:17), and things as silly as picking up sticks on a Sabbath day (Num. 15:32-36), plus a bunch of others too numerous to list here.

Not "no raping" or "no owning humans". Just a list of things that are about enforcing the practice of Judaism among the Jews... in other words, things that might threaten the Patriarchy or the Priesthood.

The irony is that the article being written by the rabbi is in answer to a question about whether the verses in the Torah permit the modern Israeli soldiers to behave in the manner permitted of the Israelite soldiers, which of course he cannot say it does. So instead he talks about how the ancient soldiers just couldn't be stopped, somehow, so they had to be mitigated with complex rules about a waiting period... whereas today we have no problem commanding all modern soldiers to never do those things, without a God needed to stop them.

And that is why Humanist morality is superior to Biblical morality.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 6 users Like RocketSurgeon76's post
15-12-2016, 12:21 AM
RE: Christian vs. Humanist Morality
(14-12-2016 11:39 PM)socialistview Wrote:  No trying to convert athiest from the stupid foolish destructive ways.

As My ways are neither stupid nor foolish nor destructive, and as you are a very, very poor spokesman for your beliefs, I predict with 100% certainty that you will fail to convert Me at any moment from now into the infinite future.

Normally I would hedge My bets by saying 99.999...% certainty -- that is, I would assume your chances to be infinitely improbably but non-zero -- but given what you have written in this thread I feel compelled to give you no chance at all.

Perhaps you should just give up proselytizing altogether and trust in your god to do its own dirty work.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
15-12-2016, 01:35 AM
RE: Christian vs. Humanist Morality
God always gives an outlet mabe that law was there so the soldier doesn't rape and pillage. He didn't miss against her will but the soldier didn't have time to court and put in that situation I bet you'll get a hooker real quick. Astreja I'm african royalty native american spanish and tabago where does your lineage orginate from I'm american but still trust and love the country and love being spanish though I've been seen as just black. You know paul wasn't the greatest speaker either god doesn't use the best person mabe when you see me famous you'll convert.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
15-12-2016, 01:48 AM
RE: Christian vs. Humanist Morality
(14-12-2016 06:58 PM)socialistview Wrote:  The bible doesn't accept rape no matter what you think

You are either insanely stupid or a liar. We already know this. Why keep demonstrating this? Probably because you are insanely stupid?

Ceterum censeo, religionem delendam esse
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
15-12-2016, 03:58 AM
RE: Christian vs. Humanist Morality
(15-12-2016 01:48 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  
(14-12-2016 06:58 PM)socialistview Wrote:  The bible doesn't accept rape no matter what you think

You are either insanely stupid or a liar. We already know this. Why keep demonstrating this? Probably because you are insanely stupid?

SV is some kind of stupid evangelist kid, probably in his early 20s, and thinks he's doing good by telling us the good news. When it's pointed out to him that in fact it is the bad news he has no recourse except to feebly bleat the same ridiculous shit again. Adding a good measure of rape apologetics in case that'll help convert us.

SocialistView, you are a flaming dickhead, but you don't *have* to be one. You have a choice. Don't be an arsehole, learn from your mistakes, and join the 21st century. We don't give a flying fuck about your book if you'll just shut up about it, and if you actually talk to us you might learn something about people who're not part of your cult. You know, instead of assuming you already know us. You could also drop the machismo and all the misogynist shit, it's not winning you any friends. You might want to think about *why* I'm asking you to drop it too, it's not to fit in, it's simply because if you want to be a human being who respects other human beings, then it starts with ditching discrimination.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 7 users Like morondog's post
15-12-2016, 06:01 AM
RE: Christian vs. Humanist Morality
(09-12-2016 04:56 PM)socialistview Wrote:  I don't care about rape all women are sluts anyway it doesn't really harm them despite the emotional pridefulness they may have

Unlike you, i do care about rape, believe it or not (no pun intended). I guess thats the difference between something like you and a decent person (amongst several other things).

For the record: I do sincerely hope that, once you may act, informed by and according to your disgusting and disturbing belief(s), you will be sentenced to a time long enough to contemplate what a horrible piece of human shit you have been until then. By the way: In case you are probably going to be raped then (in prison for example), i sincerely hope the perpetrator will have a just sentence too. I -unlike you- dont make any differences when people are getting raped. Smartass
I would be interested however to see if you still dont care about rape then. Drinking Beverage

When apologizing rape, you should think about what you are asking for, like with any other ignorant and barbaric way of thinking.

If this is gonna happen (= you starting to act according to your professed beliefs), you may write me a letter from prison if you want. I would give you my rl mailing adress, just so i can inform other people of your mindset what the consequences of their barbarism may be.

Ceterum censeo, religionem delendam esse
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like Deesse23's post
15-12-2016, 06:08 AM
RE: Christian vs. Humanist Morality
(15-12-2016 01:35 AM)socialistview Wrote:  God always gives an outlet mabe that law was there so the soldier doesn't rape and pillage. He didn't miss against her will but the soldier didn't have time to court and put in that situation I bet you'll get a hooker real quick. Astreja I'm african royalty native american spanish and tabago where does your lineage orginate from I'm american but still trust and love the country and love being spanish though I've been seen as just black. You know paul wasn't the greatest speaker either god doesn't use the best person mabe when you see me famous you'll convert.

We really need a no proselytizing rule on this forum, then you can be put out of your misery.

If you wanted to sound reasonable, you would acknowledge that the bible is condoning and enabling rape, not just individual rape, but systematic rape writ large on the level of thousands committing this act.

Trying to pull the interpretation card to try to get out of it, makes you; and your god, look like a misogynistic dick.

End of story, now you need to stop making excuses and go away.

You've done nothing but damage your god concept, you have failed miserably and you are in a long line of failed proselytizers that have plagued this forum.

You've done exactly what all of the others have done, show that your god is a murderous thug worthy of the barbaric status that is so representative of a 2700 year old moral standard.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 3 users Like TheInquisition's post
15-12-2016, 06:23 AM
RE: Christian vs. Humanist Morality
(14-12-2016 11:37 PM)socialistview Wrote:  You know they had many laws like that including one where they had to clean the blood from themselves after war becuase psychologically they become bloodthirsty. The jews always was known to have advance knowledge.

Yeah, because nobody covered in blood would otherwise want to wash it off and because being covered in blood just naturally makes people want more blood.
Facepalm

Do you ever actually think about anything or do you just take anything you are told came from your imaginary god at face value?

(15-12-2016 01:35 AM)socialistview Wrote:  He didn't miss against her will but the soldier didn't have time to court and put in that situation I bet you'll get a hooker real quick.

The soldier didn't have time to court? That makes it OK to kidnap a virgin girl and take her against her will? For somebody who claims not to be a rape apologist you sure do come up with a lot of ways of apologizing for rape.

Grow up, move out of mom's basement, and get a life.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 6 users Like unfogged's post
15-12-2016, 06:46 AM
RE: Christian vs. Humanist Morality
(15-12-2016 06:08 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  We really need a no proselytizing rule on this forum, then you can be put out of your misery.
No we don't Tongue

Quote:You've done nothing but damage your god concept, you have failed miserably and you are in a long line of failed proselytizers that have plagued this forum.

You've done exactly what all of the others have done, show that your god is a murderous thug worthy of the barbaric status that is so representative of a 2700 year old moral standard.
That's why we don't Big Grin

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 5 users Like morondog's post
15-12-2016, 10:05 AM (This post was last modified: 15-12-2016 10:19 AM by Astreja.)
RE: Christian vs. Humanist Morality
(15-12-2016 01:35 AM)socialistview Wrote:  Astreja I'm african royalty native american spanish and tabago where does your lineage orginate from

African royalty? (Springy G sighs heavily and shakes Her head as She lets go of a massive pile of certificates and ribbons and trophies and business cards)

Socialistview, I could dump a whole shitload of silly credentials on you. I have SAT scores, martial arts trophies, and certificates in everything from network engineering to classical violin to best-of-show at a SF convention masquerade. Placed first in a math competition in 1971. I even won a limbo contest. I've even won crap when I didn't even know I was competing for it. (kicks aside a book She won in Grade 1 for reading skills)

I can claim descent from the Norse gods, Scot chieftains with our very own tartan (yesss!), and a for-real rocket scientist whose electronics work is still flying somewhere overhead on various satellites. IIRC, one of My great-uncles owned a huge WonderBread-class bakery in Norway so I could claim to be the Princess of Toast if I really wanted to.

I could use Wikipedia to claim street cred as the former Goddess of Justice in ancient Greece. I gave up being Queen of Earth after three years because I wanted to get a good night's sleep (and because I was royally pissed at Dubya for invading Iraq -- on My official Springy equinox holiday, no less!) I'm still proudly affiliated with the Tower of High Sorcery at Wayreth, although as a Red Robe now rather than a White Robe.

But you know what? None of that matters. It's our behaviour in the here-and-now that's important. No high number on a credit score and no letter of recommendation from My guardian dragon Glori will make Me a better or worse person.

Quote:mabe when you see me famous you'll convert.

No, fame is meaningless to Me.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Astreja's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: