Christian vs. Humanist Morality
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15-12-2016, 10:50 AM
RE: Christian vs. Humanist Morality
(14-12-2016 06:58 PM)socialistview Wrote:  The bible doesn't accept rape no matter what you think it doesn't say that ...
It has been pointed out to you many times with direct quotes from your favorite book that the bible does indeed condone rape. Yet you continue to ignore that and insist like a toddler in a tantrum that it just isn't so. I even provided you a link to an entire page about rape in the bible and yup, you ignored that too.

I was tempted to call you stupid for continuing to believe in the bible's innocense on the matter despite all the evidence to contrary handed to you on a silver platter in this thread. Then I was tempted to call you dishonest. But, it's more than that, isn't it.

You told us the reason, right here:

(09-12-2016 04:56 PM)socialistview Wrote:  I don't care about rape all women are sluts anyway it doesn't really harm them despite the emotional pridefulness they may have...

And here:

(14-12-2016 09:45 AM)socialistview Wrote:  Your no girl getter like me who can get a girl to sleep with me the first night.

This is your true opinion of women and how they should be treated.

So fuck you, you despicable asshole!

Oh, and I know you must really dislike periods when you're sleeping with all those women, but please try using a few more in your posts so we can understand what the hell you're attempting to say!

@DonaldTrump, Patriotism is not honoring your flag no matter what your country/leader does. It's doing whatever it takes to make your country the best it can be as long as its not violent.
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15-12-2016, 11:55 AM
RE: Christian vs. Humanist Morality
(14-12-2016 06:58 PM)socialistview Wrote:  The bible doesn't accept rape no matter what you think it doesn't say that

You are lying again, which is a sin! It is irrelevant anyhow what the bible says, because you.dont.care.about.rape.

(09-12-2016 04:56 PM)socialistview Wrote:  I don't care about rape all women are sluts anyway it doesn't really harm them

You didnt say "it is not rape"! By saying "i dont care.." you tacitly admitted that it is rape, you just ....dont fucking care.

Welcome to the list of most horrible persons. Please have a seat, right next to this fellow. He may even learn a bit from you.
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15-12-2016, 12:17 PM
RE: Christian vs. Humanist Morality
I think he might be gone, perhaps we finally shamed him ? Consider
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15-12-2016, 03:39 PM
RE: Christian vs. Humanist Morality
I'm a really good person. Volunteer give to the poor everytime I get a chance something you can learn. Mabe the bible does accept some kinds of uninvolvement but I don't think god would allow it not to be recognized as it is shown. God could of said nothing but had a law which doesn't say rape but to stop it becuase if there was no law then what will the soldier do probably rape. Just becuase you determine it to be rape doesn't mean they did you should search and read more about it instead of wikipedia that doesn't give full analysis on things. Astreja I would like for you to be my goddess if you know what I mean.
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15-12-2016, 03:46 PM
RE: Christian vs. Humanist Morality
(15-12-2016 03:39 PM)socialistview Wrote:  I'm a really good person. Volunteer give to the poor everytime I get a chance something you can learn. Mabe the bible does accept some kinds of uninvolvement but I don't think god would allow it not to be recognized as it is shown. God could of said nothing but had a law which doesn't say rape but to stop it becuase if there was no law then what will the soldier do probably rape. Just becuase you determine it to be rape doesn't mean they did you should search and read more about it instead of wikipedia that doesn't give full analysis on things.
Still no admission of anything along with some denial. Tell, me where's the "Thou shalt not rape" commandment? Consider That's right, it doesn't exist because that would contradict all the places where god does condone it - many of which have been pointed out to you - all of which you continue to ignore.

(15-12-2016 03:39 PM)socialistview Wrote:  Astreja I would like for you to be my goddess if you know what I mean.
We all know what you mean you sick pervert. Why don't go help yourself trip over a cordless phone after you fuck yourself. Then play in traffic.

@DonaldTrump, Patriotism is not honoring your flag no matter what your country/leader does. It's doing whatever it takes to make your country the best it can be as long as its not violent.
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15-12-2016, 03:47 PM
RE: Christian vs. Humanist Morality
http://thetorah.com/rape-unbetrothed-virgin/
http://www.jewishanswers.org/ask-the-rab...pe/?p=1258
Kidnapping was a capital crime too.
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15-12-2016, 03:55 PM
RE: Christian vs. Humanist Morality
(15-12-2016 03:39 PM)socialistview Wrote:  I'm a really good person. Volunteer give to the poor everytime I get a chance something you can learn. Mabe the bible does accept some kinds of uninvolvement but I don't think god would allow it not to be recognized as it is shown. God could of said nothing but had a law which doesn't say rape but to stop it becuase if there was no law then what will the soldier do probably rape. Just becuase you determine it to be rape doesn't mean they did you should search and read more about it instead of wikipedia that doesn't give full analysis on things. Astreja I would like for you to be my goddess if you know what I mean.

Dude, it's really simple. God makes a Commandment that says "thou shalt not rape" and another that says "thou shalt not own slaves".

Anyone who DOES it would then guilty of breaking a Commandment. God could have gone further and given some Levitical/Deuteronomical laws about stoning any man who broke those rules, to really drive home the importance of not raping and not owning slaves.

But it's nowhere to be found. At BEST it has to be implied from some obscure rule that may have served to "mitigate" the rape of the captive women, forced to marry their captors against their will (unless the guy doesn't like them, in which case the guy can let them go... hooray for them). The Bible could have made it very clear that treating women in this way was utterly immoral and indefensible. It did not.

Even today, it's common for soldiers to rape during wartime. If you want to understand this phenomenon in history and society, I recommend a few chapters in Susan Brownmiller's excellent book Against Our Will.

We find you disgusting because you are clearly more concerned with defense of scriptures than with a defense of basic human rights, just like the priests who wrote the book you are defending. Your words have made clear that your outlook, informed by these disgusting ancient and barbaric scriptures, is rooted in the Bronze Age and not the modern age.

Wake up. Grow up. And join the 21st century.

Please, I'm serious... do it before you scar someone for life and wind up in prison finding out the hard way that being victimized really, really sucks.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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15-12-2016, 04:16 PM (This post was last modified: 15-12-2016 04:19 PM by RocketSurgeon76.)
RE: Christian vs. Humanist Morality
(15-12-2016 03:47 PM)socialistview Wrote:  http://thetorah.com/rape-unbetrothed-virgin/
http://www.jewishanswers.org/ask-the-rab...pe/?p=1258
Kidnapping was a capital crime too.

Fuck, dude, do you even READ these before you post them? The author of the first link states:

"All the laws emphasize the offense against the father and not the crime of aggression against the girl herself, although they show some consideration for the girl’s well-being in providing the possibility of marriage. The laws differ in their monetary penalties: CC simply requires restitution of the girl’s lost value, while MAL A calls for a higher sum, presumably as a punishment for circumventing the father’s authority to arrange a marriage for his daughter. (DC’s penalty is difficult to evaluate, as noted above.)"

It's about money and what the girl's "bride price" would fetch her father, which is less if she is no longer a virgin. It is literally a financial crime against the man, not a crime of sexual violence against the woman. You are not helping your case, here.

The second link is outright bullshit. I'll break it down:

"Biblically the Torah states that it is a sin and forbidden to rape a woman."

What? Where, exactly, does it say that? The only verse of which I am aware states that it is death to assault the wife (or betrothed) of another man, making the crime a crime against the man who owns the woman, not against the woman herself.

"The biblical judgement is for the rapist to marry the victim!"

See the above about financial crime. Again, the "sin" is against the father who "owns" her, not against the woman herself. Not exactly a moral concept. [Edit to Add: And I won't even get into the degree of horror it must have been for a rape victim whose father said she had to marry the rapist. The guy goes on to say the woman had the choice, but the verses don't say that and it's illogical to conclude so, given the Patriarchal nature of that society.]

"I know that sounds crazy and it is up to the woman’s discretion, the man has no choice, but she could say no (understandably)."

Nowhere does it say this. He's pulling that completely out of his ass.

"If you look at it in context, in ancient times a raped woman was looked upon as “damaged goods” and very likely would never find a husband. In ancient society this would be devastating as the men were the main source of sustenance and protection for a woman. This is connected to the fact that women didn’t have much standing in the society in the world at that time. This judgement was proscribed in order to “protect” the rights of the woman and insure she was cared for and respected in society not casted out."

Yeah, it's that "context" with which we take issue. She is "damaged goods" because she was goods in the first place. So it's not to protect her "rights" but to prevent her from being a financial loss to her owner (her father or husband).

What about verses that say, instead, "A Woman of Israel has inherent value as a human being and may never be violated by any man, lest he suffer death by stoning, thus saith the LORD"? Simple, to the point, and leaves no room for questioning about whether men are superior, whether women are just about their cash value, and/or whether Patriarchy is favored by God. Think of how many centuries of suffering women throughout Western civilization had to endure, based on the Biblical outlook that repeatedly called them inferior in status, except as potential virgin brides. All could have been avoided by one verse... which appears nowhere.

All that talk about that's just how it was in ancient society ignores the simple fact that the Israelites had numerous practices that made them stand apart from the other cultures of the day. This commandment would have been just one more of a long list of ways their society refused to participate in the "culture of the time".

Except it's not there.

"In addition there was a monetary fine and possibly public lashes while stripped down to a loin cloth."

No lashes. Not mentioned anywhere. Pulled out of his ass. The "monetary fine" was because of the financial value of her virginity. Despite all the dodging of the apologists on this subject, every verse points to the same conclusion: women were property of their fathers until they became property of their husbands, and the crime was against the men who owned them, not against the women. You will not find a single verse in the Bible about the rape of a woman that calls it a crime against the woman-- the crime is against her value as a virgin.

And that is disgusting. You have not only failed to defend your position, you have made it worse.

Congratulations, and thanks for helping us atheists show the people reading this forum that our version of human-rights-based morality is superior to the Biblical one.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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15-12-2016, 04:32 PM
RE: Christian vs. Humanist Morality
(15-12-2016 03:39 PM)socialistview Wrote:  I'm a really good person.
Only God can judge the hearts of people and know the truth, but from what you've posted here, I doubt that. You see, it's bugged me, who you remind me of, and I've been trying to place it. Besides some of my lewder Freshmen, that is. And then it hit me as I read your disgusting comment to Astreja. I went to church with my youth minister's son when I was a Baptist. Went to summer camp with him. He was always quoting Scripture, ignoring the parts he didn't like, trying to preach and convert people, and was also a tad creepy. He ended up being arrested for, I believe it was seven counts, of soliciting minors via the internet at the age of 31. That's what your rhetoric keeps reminding me of.

Quote:Volunteer give to the poor everytime I get a chance
Good, that makes two of us. I've recorded parents reading books to their children in jail cells and then sent the CD and book to the family, so the kid could hear their parent's voice. I've helped with a chapel service in a maximum security facility. Worked with soup kitchens, Habitat for Humanity, and many others during the years. Donate to an anti-human trafficking group. None of that means I'm a good person necessarily, nor does it mean I'm doing so for the purest reasons possibly, but I'm also not doing it because the Bible encourages me to do so to store up treasures in Heaven.

And that, is the heart of this thread, not your constant rape apologetics. Why do we do things that are "moral"? Personally, I don't do those to curry favor with God, or get a crown in Heaven. As far as I'm concerned, God can reward or it not, He doesn't need me to do those things and only do it to please him. The reasons I've done those things is because of empathy and compassion. The reason for those things isn't because I'm a Catholic Christian, it's because I'm a human being that sees people who need help and I was in a position to offer a little bit of it.

Quote: something you can learn.
Sigh. You realize this site and the podcast associated with it has raised money to send kids to summer camp, to build a well for clean drinking water for a village in Africa, and other things, right? Plus, if you'll refer back to my comment about how only God can judge the hearts of men and women, how would you know they need to learn that?

Quote:Mabe the bible does accept some kinds of uninvolvement but I don't think god would allow it not to be recognized as it is shown. God could of said nothing but had a law which doesn't say rape but to stop it becuase if there was no law then what will the soldier do probably rape. Just becuase you determine it to be rape doesn't mean they did you should search and read more about it instead of wikipedia that doesn't give full analysis on things.
People have searched further than Wikipedia, and even quoted your own links against you...repeatedly.

Quote: Astreja I would like for you to be my goddess if you know what I mean.

That if this was online she should get a restraining order against you because you sound like a stalker and potential rapist?

Need to think of a witty signature.
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15-12-2016, 04:43 PM
RE: Christian vs. Humanist Morality
You know they did stuff they didn't tell I read before that they wiped the dude and this is from a jewish dude saying this. It does say in the mitvah that a man had to be aware of his wife needs meaning he couldn't force her to have sex but wait till she was ready. And god said he created man and women equal even in the new testament. You know why they used bride feeit was becuase they could use it as a means to support the loss they recieved by not having that person in the household right.
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