Christian vs. Humanist Morality
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16-12-2016, 12:02 PM
RE: Christian vs. Humanist Morality
Um, Bzltyr, you brought up evolution, not us. You sent yourself "down the rabbit hole".

I'm simply deciding not to play your game, for the moment, until you address the things Hobbit brought up.

After which point I will *GLADLY* deal with you on your assertions about evolutionary biology.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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16-12-2016, 12:05 PM
RE: Christian vs. Humanist Morality
(16-12-2016 11:58 AM)Impulse Wrote:  
(16-12-2016 11:50 AM)Bzltyr Wrote:  Come on, be fair. I am trying to stay on topic...

(16-12-2016 11:55 AM)Bzltyr Wrote:  btw I did read the book. And you cannot know any different. Run away if you want.

Baiting back into the off-topic. Hmm. Consider

You can't have it both ways. Pick one. Dodgy

I have picked one. Christian vs Humanist Morality. Not evolution - Not Jewish law that the Christian is not under. Rocket is an evolutionary biologist so I asked him if there was a thread on this website about that. I was not trying to start a discussion on evolution here in this thread.
I have picked one and everyone wants to go other places. I am not afraid, I have your answers. I will answer here and highjack this thread or on another thread. You tell me.
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16-12-2016, 12:08 PM
RE: Christian vs. Humanist Morality
(16-12-2016 11:45 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  
(16-12-2016 11:36 AM)Szuchow Wrote:  Sin. And eternity in abusive dad basement as payment for so called sin.

Well, according to Bzltyr, the existence of his god wasnt relevant to his morals. Looks like thats not the case, and his existence and the existence of his "furnace for his kids" is relevant, what a fucking surprise. Big Grin

I did not say that. Wow, you people need a class in critical reading. I said that the Bible and Christianity exist and therefore Christian morality exists.
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16-12-2016, 12:09 PM
RE: Christian vs. Humanist Morality
(16-12-2016 11:47 AM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  FOURTH TIME:

THE FOLLOWING CHRISTIAN DOCTRINES ARE REPULSIVE, UNETHICAL, IMMORAL, AND AN AFFRONT TO HUMAN DIGNITY AND INTELLIGENCE.

The Doctrine of Hell

The concept of an Omni- god who created you knowing in advance that you would sin

The Doctrine of Original Sin

Vicarious Redemption


I CHALLENGE YOU TO DEFEND THEM.


ETA: My apologies to my fellow forumites for the font/size/color of these last couple of posts. Just trying to drive the point home that he is dodging.

although I have to admit, posting in all caps is kinda fun...

Oh, I see it now.
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16-12-2016, 12:10 PM
RE: Christian vs. Humanist Morality
(16-12-2016 11:55 AM)Bzltyr Wrote:  Wow. You know I lied? That is amazing. I never said anyone who accepts science is anti-god.

Okay, on re-reading your comment in which you suggested that people who believe in evolution do so because they want to reject god, I see you may have been joking in reference to a similar comment about people pushing Creationist ideas because of their religiousity. If that is what you meant, I apologize.

We get a LOT of people who come in here and suggest that evolution = atheism, or that the only reason evolution is accepted by atheists is so that we can reject god (or because we want to). Not much of a joke to us. And it's certainly not a joke to the aforementioned Christians who are my friends and colleagues (not to mention the one I married) in the field of evolutionary biology.

(16-12-2016 11:55 AM)Bzltyr Wrote:  You are a chump. Stop lying about me and what I said. You are putting your prejudices on me.

I misunderstood what you said, and for good reason, as I stated above.

(16-12-2016 11:55 AM)Bzltyr Wrote:  btw I did read the book. And you cannot know any different. Run away if you want.

Yes, I can know differently. Collins is quite clear that we have demonstrable proof of evolution via DNA, he shows how the DNA evidence (which is an entirely new field) backed up what was already known by other methods, and he shows in unequivocal terms that the only way the things we have learned by DNA scanning make sense is if common-descent evolution is true.

Several things you have already said are phrased in a way that demonstrates you don't understand how evolution actually works, on a population genetics level. If you had read (and understood) Collins, I very much doubt you would still be phrasing things the way you are.

Further, if you had really read the Kitzmiller transcript, you would know what I said about Behe's ideas, and why they are discredited. You would not be suggesting that we "want" him discredited, you would know that he is... and that the conservative Christian judge who wrote the Opinion on the case was quite critical of how bad Behe's ideas are-- someone who had zero anti-religious bias or any other reason to find that way unless it was reality.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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16-12-2016, 12:12 PM
RE: Christian vs. Humanist Morality
(16-12-2016 11:19 AM)adey67 Wrote:  
(16-12-2016 11:02 AM)Bzltyr Wrote:  Of course not all. What you are implying that his research is tainted due to his religion. That is not a valid argument.

All the biologist that believe in evolution believe it because they do not want to accept that God did it. Is my argument valid???????


“The reason we leaped at The Origin of Species was because the idea of God interfered with our sexual mores.” Julien Huxley

So one microbiologist speaks and you take him and make a blanket statement about microbiology proving evolution is wrong without confirming if its the general consensus of microbiologists I'm no scientist or scholar but I'm not a total moron please do not insult me, perhaps you see me as a soft touch because I am honest enough to admit my lack of knowledge in certain areas but your confabulation wont work on me mister.... Largely very disappointed right now.

Science does not work on "general consensus."
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16-12-2016, 12:13 PM
RE: Christian vs. Humanist Morality
Rocket, I admire you for your last posting. You and I may become friends.
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16-12-2016, 12:14 PM
RE: Christian vs. Humanist Morality
(16-12-2016 11:58 AM)Bzltyr Wrote:  No, I do not follow the 10 commandments because I am not under that law as no other Christians are under that law. They are good laws but they have no power over me. You obviously do not know the reasons for the law.

Oh look, it seems you don't know the reasons yourself. From your own KJV:

Quote:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
(Matthew 19:16-19)

And, in case you think you now only have to follow those commandments, here's another not mentioned above:

Quote:And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve. (Luke 4:8)

@DonaldTrump, Patriotism is not honoring your flag no matter what your country/leader does. It's doing whatever it takes to make your country the best it can be as long as its not violent.
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16-12-2016, 12:17 PM
RE: Christian vs. Humanist Morality
A conservative Christian Judge is not qualified to judge Behe. Post peer reviews that discount Behe. Not a Judge.

Please stop intimating that I am lying. I read Collins and I read the Kitzmiller transcript. Please believe me and stop that crap. I am not going to lie here. I may be found to have misspoken - just like the Cow to Whale thing. You are correct it is the Hippo - just misrememebering not lying. I have not looked or discussed this for a while.
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16-12-2016, 12:21 PM
RE: Christian vs. Humanist Morality
(16-12-2016 11:09 AM)Bzltyr Wrote:  Remember, it is not part of a Christian's moral code to lie. It is ingrained in the atheist to lie because there are no repercussions...

I hereby declare you to be a false Christian, then, because you are lying about how atheists perceive truth. I am predisposed to speak the truth rather than lie, for a number of sensible, non-supernatural reasons.
  • I never have to worry about keeping My story straight, because it remains consistently in line with known facts of a situation.
  • I value truth for its own sake, independent of any external consequences, and therefore being punished for lying is not really much of a disincentive.
  • Life is substantially easier to deal with when one faces unpleasant things head-on rather than hoping that things are not the way they appear to be. Truth, and the courage to act upon it, are the most powerful weapons one has when trying to live a coherent and authentic life.
Compare this to Christianity. In particular I'd like to point out the absurdity of the "don't even think bad things, or it's a sin" nonsense. What is this, if not lying to oneself and denying one's true feelings on a matter?

And what is it with Christians bearing false witness against non-believers, pretending that they can read our minds so that they can accuse us of nonsensical things and puff themselves up?

No, Bzltyr, your "Christian morality" is stinking pig crap and your own words are the evidence.
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