Christian vs. Humanist Morality
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05-12-2016, 05:38 PM (This post was last modified: 05-12-2016 05:43 PM by Deesse23.)
RE: Christian vs. Humanist Morality
(05-12-2016 11:55 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(05-12-2016 03:48 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  Facepalm

What are you, a fucking sociopath?



It seems that you think those who don't believe in such arbitrary rules, who do as they see as pleasing to them, are sociopaths, even if they don't particularly find it pleasing to murder, or kill others. And perhaps they find it pleasing to live amicably with those around them.

This was a rhetorical question. Are you fucking try to argue with me, dishonest pice of shit? I am here long enough to know your dishonesty, remember? I was just pointing out that there is not much else left but you being a fucking monster.
Hey, but nice try at reading my mind. I mean, really nice for a lying shitbag like you.

(05-12-2016 11:55 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  Do you do as you please?
Is this an actual try to answer my question or just a try of misdirecing?

(05-12-2016 11:55 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  Do you do as you please?
Do you always answer questions with questions? Or only when you are trying to be evasive and dishonest, which is......well always.

(05-12-2016 03:48 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  Or do you have some arbitrary set of moral rules, that you're under compulsion to abide by?
Nice bait. Nice try of evasion. Nice try of misdirection. Nice way to admit you are a dishonest piece of shit.
But there is one thing this isnt: A kind of answer or justification as for why you think morality is a kind of "shackles" you fucking sociopath.

(05-12-2016 03:48 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  If the later, have you found yourself coming across situations where on one hand you desired to do something, but found yourself unable to do so, because of some sort of obligation to a humanistic moral code? That absent of a belief in such a moral code, you would have done as you desired here?
I would probably tell you, but you are a misdirecting, dishonest piece of shit, who answers questions with questions. Why should i share my thoughts about morality with someone who has none at all, a socipath like you? So there is that.


So what is it? You perceive morals as "shackles". Are you a sociopath?

P.S.: Have you subscribed to yet another fake PhD at your beloved, "prestigious" diploma mill?

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05-12-2016, 07:34 PM
RE: Christian vs. Humanist Morality
(05-12-2016 05:38 PM)Deesse23 Wrote:  
(05-12-2016 11:55 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  It seems that you think those who don't believe in such arbitrary rules, who do as they see as pleasing to them, are sociopaths, even if they don't particularly find it pleasing to murder, or kill others. And perhaps they find it pleasing to live amicably with those around them.

This was a rhetorical question. Are you fucking try to argue with me, dishonest pice of shit? I am here long enough to know your dishonesty, remember? I was just pointing out that there is not much else left but you being a fucking monster.
Hey, but nice try at reading my mind. I mean, really nice for a lying shitbag like you.

(05-12-2016 11:55 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  Do you do as you please?
Is this an actual try to answer my question or just a try of misdirecing?

(05-12-2016 11:55 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  Do you do as you please?
Do you always answer questions with questions? Or only when you are trying to be evasive and dishonest, which is......well always.

(05-12-2016 03:48 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  Or do you have some arbitrary set of moral rules, that you're under compulsion to abide by?
Nice bait. Nice try of evasion. Nice try of misdirection. Nice way to admit you are a dishonest piece of shit.
But there is one thing this isnt: A kind of answer or justification as for why you think morality is a kind of "shackles" you fucking sociopath.

(05-12-2016 03:48 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  If the later, have you found yourself coming across situations where on one hand you desired to do something, but found yourself unable to do so, because of some sort of obligation to a humanistic moral code? That absent of a belief in such a moral code, you would have done as you desired here?
I would probably tell you, but you are a misdirecting, dishonest piece of shit, who answers questions with questions. Why should i share my thoughts about morality with someone who has none at all, a socipath like you? So there is that.


So what is it? You perceive morals as "shackles". Are you a sociopath?

P.S.: Have you subscribed to yet another fake PhD at your beloved, "prestigious" diploma mill?
Oh geeh another morality thread ongoing cause of tomasia.

I wouldn't say he's a sociopath but he's often arguing along the lines if he were to not believe in gods and objective ordered morality he would be a nihilistic wanderer who wouldn't take nothing but his order cause everything that way is permissible. He finds the nihilist atheists more intune to him because he just doesn't want to grasp subtly and nuisance in the world of actual philosophy and the ideas of humanism.

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05-12-2016, 07:41 PM
RE: Christian vs. Humanist Morality
(05-12-2016 05:38 PM)Deesse23 Wrote:  This was a rhetorical question. Are you fucking try to argue with me, dishonest pice of shit? I am here long enough to know your dishonesty, remember? I was just pointing out that there is not much else left but you being a fucking monster.
Hey, but nice try at reading my mind. I mean, really nice for a lying shitbag like you.

Perhaps you need to smoke a dubbie or someshit. If a random and fairly innocuous person on the internet like myself, can piss you off this badly, then clearly you have some issues.

Quote:Is this an actual try to answer my question or just a try of misdirecing?

Huh? You asked just one question: "are you a sociopath?" and then indicated here that you were just being rhetorical. I didn't know rhetorical questions were supposed to be answered. But I'll answer it any way, lets see if you'll answer mine. No I'm not a sociopath.

(05-12-2016 03:48 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  But there is one thing this isnt: A kind of answer or justification as for why you think morality is a kind of "shackles" you fucking sociopath.

Anyone trying to sell some set of man made moral rules, like a set of humanistic principles requesting that I or anyone else obligate themselves to them is selling shackles. I do as I please, just like Girlyman will say he'll do as he pleases as well. Why should anyone bind themselves to any particular moral philosophy, or ethical system, clearly other animals don't, so why should we? And i'd wager you'll have a hard time arguing for the need of such ethical frameworks to begin with, particularly when it comes to yourself. If anything you might advocate for it, in order to control others, while seeing it as lacking any real importance in regards to your behavior.

(05-12-2016 03:48 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  I would probably tell you, but you are a misdirecting, dishonest piece of shit, who answers questions with questions. Why should i share my thoughts about morality with someone who has none at all, a socipath like you? So there is that.

So who is it that's being evasive? Are you actually going to answer my questions?

Quote:So what it? You perceive morals as "shackles". Are you a sociopath?

I consider what ever form of morality you want to peddle, as man made sets of rules and guidelines, typically thought of and composed by a bunch of old wealthy westerners, in forms like the humanist manifesto. I have no obligation to abide by it's dictates, nor shackled to them. I live as I please, whether you like it or not, is of no concern.

Quote:P.S.: Have you subscribed to yet another fake PhD at your beloved, "prestigious" diploma mill?

No, I don't have a fake or real degree from a diploma mill, it was joke, but some folks clearly lack a sense of humor.

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"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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05-12-2016, 07:44 PM
RE: Christian vs. Humanist Morality
(05-12-2016 07:34 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  He finds the nihilist atheists more intune to him because he just doesn't want to grasp subtly and nuisance in the world of actual philosophy and the ideas of humanism.

I think what actually happens is that many people tend to conflate their incoherency, with subtlity and nuance.

And aren't you a moral nihilist? I thought you indicated in the past that you were?

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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05-12-2016, 10:03 PM
RE: Christian vs. Humanist Morality
(05-12-2016 02:42 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  If you imagine your moral impulses, are different than other animals, that perhaps human creatures are unique in this regard...

We are definitely not unique in having empathy. It exists in multiple species.

Quote:You don't have to go into technical description, you just have to answer some seemingly basic questions, such as why do you as a biological creature avoid harming others? Is it not a matter of physiological processes, as is evidently the case when it comes to other animals?

It may well be physiological at some level, and is probably a behaviour that evolution selected for. A group that respects and protects its members is a whole greater than the sum of its parts, and more likely to hold together and survive bad times.

Quote:More likely to find a parallel between being human, and being a dog, or an ape, than yours, that wants to argue for that elusive unique ingredient.

Humans are apes.

Quote:{Your worldview} might not be filtered to whats called religion, it's likely filtered through your own liberal/humanistic, western lenses, and fundamentally false.

How do you propose to demonstrate that it is false?
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06-12-2016, 12:02 AM
RE: Christian vs. Humanist Morality
(05-12-2016 03:07 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(05-12-2016 02:25 PM)morondog Wrote:  Rolleyes Tommy stinks up another thread.

Go on then Tommy, instead of being a dick why don't you tell us what's so good about your morality, that maintains "goodness" with the threat of punishment. Are you "good" because you innately prefer not to be a total prick (not you, but people who follow Christian morality in general), or because you fear punishment if you *are* a total prick? Are you like so many others of your ilk, who take delight in the nastiness they *are* allowed to practice, like discriminating against homosexuals? God specifically says to do that, remember - "homosexuality is an abomination", where he's totally silent about for example, not raping people. The only caveat with raping a girl is that you might have to marry her.

Fucken nice morality you've got there mate Thumbsup


And how does your morality work? Can you think of a time that you desired to do something, but avoided doing so because of an obligation to a humanistic moral code?
Or can you say you do as your desire and please?

If an action, or it's consequences appear to be unpleasant, you would perhaps avoid it. And if an action would be ultimately gratifying, or rewarding, you'd likely do it. Or do you subscribe to some arbitrary moral code, that limits you here from doing as you desire?

You will note that exhibit A, Tommy shit-for-brains, has not told us what is good about his morality, what makes it better than a humanist outlook. Instead he has opted for more shit-slinging, because he knows that he can't actually say something positive about Christian morality. There is nothing positive about it.

Yes, Tommy, I have desires. Sometimes even desires that run contrary to the law. And funny enough, because the law is there I don't do that which I desire. Unless I think I won't get caught. The difference is, my desires do not include murdering people, raping them etc, and I don't need a monstrous death God with a disgusting moral record himself to tell me not to. You apparently do.

My moral code is my own. I have no problem with that. Your moral code you claim is based off some stupid book, but the stupid book includes gems like stoning your son for disobedience, so unless you really are that fucken dumb, your morals are subjective too.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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06-12-2016, 02:39 AM
RE: Christian vs. Humanist Morality
(06-12-2016 12:02 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(05-12-2016 03:07 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  And how does your morality work? Can you think of a time that you desired to do something, but avoided doing so because of an obligation to a humanistic moral code?
Or can you say you do as your desire and please?

If an action, or it's consequences appear to be unpleasant, you would perhaps avoid it. And if an action would be ultimately gratifying, or rewarding, you'd likely do it. Or do you subscribe to some arbitrary moral code, that limits you here from doing as you desire?

You will note that exhibit A, Tommy shit-for-brains, has not told us what is good about his morality, what makes it better than a humanist outlook. Instead he has opted for more shit-slinging, because he knows that he can't actually say something positive about Christian morality. There is nothing positive about it.

Yes, Tommy, I have desires. Sometimes even desires that run contrary to the law. And funny enough, because the law is there I don't do that which I desire. Unless I think I won't get caught. The difference is, my desires do not include murdering people, raping them etc, and I don't need a monstrous death God with a disgusting moral record himself to tell me not to. You apparently do.

My moral code is my own. I have no problem with that. Your moral code you claim is based off some stupid book, but the stupid book includes gems like stoning your son for disobedience, so unless you really are that fucken dumb, your morals are subjective too.

Look at his original quote.
Quote:Not sure why so many atheists who've abandon the shackles of religion, try and trade it in for the shackles of morality

He is comparing religion and "morality" as if it was an "either or" proposition. He didnt compare religious morals and secular morals.
Thats why i *poked* him with the sociopath.

Now, probably, thats exactly what his proposition was supposed to be: Then he is saying that he isnt bound by the shackles of (any!) morals, but by the shackles of religion (since he claims to be a *christian*). Then he is by his own definition (being an "either or") immoral. I have no problem with people who claim to be immoral, i have problems with people who later dont own to it, aka. liers (which otoh is -in fact- being consitent within his worldview of actually being immoral!).

In case it was a mishap of him, and he wanted to compare shackles of religious morals with shackles of secular morals, then i have to wonder why he considers morals to be "shackles" still anyhow, and i have absolutely no desire to discuss morals with someone (a religious person the likes of Tommy) who claims to have a base for (objective even) morals, but cant demonstrate any of this. I can demonstrate what my morals are founded on, and am willing do discuss and compare with everyone who can demonstrate that he has foundations. Tommy is not such a person.

Not that this would matter in his case. He is a dishonest douchebag who doesnt give a fuck if you call him out for his lies of the very previous post/paragraph. Thats why i didnt answer any of his (trying to be disruptive and misleading) questions to deal with. Why should i play his game and discuss my foundations with such a terrible person? Its his loss not mine if he is unwilling to honestly discuss with me.

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06-12-2016, 07:05 AM
RE: Christian vs. Humanist Morality
(06-12-2016 12:02 AM)morondog Wrote:  You will note that exhibit A, Tommy shit-for-brains, has not told us what is good about his morality, what makes it better than a humanist outlook. Instead he has opted for more shit-slinging, because he knows that he can't actually say something positive about Christian morality. There is nothing positive about it.

You right I'm not particularly interested is explaining or defending my religious beliefs. And I'd imagine if you were interested in what theists believed you'd be in a theist forum.

I'm interested in gauging the veracity of my own conclusions when it comes to atheists such as yourself, and atheists who subscribe to humanism. In my views their moral beliefs are incoherent and contradictory, that they have a difficult time working out their incoherencies. I'm just testing this conclusion out, over and over again, to see how well it holds, to see if people here are better able to answer the questions proposed to them, than expected.

Instead what I find is that the common response, as it is in most cases of attempting to point out people's contradictory positions, is that they tend to become irate rather quickly, attempt to deflect, find whys out of how uncomfortable they feel, such as making it about the individual asking the questions. Clearly you're not a part of an atheist forum because you're curious about the thought patterns of theists. I on the other hand am, hence my reason here. I have a variety of unflattering conclusions, but I like to test those out whenever I get an opportunity, by gauging actual atheists.

Quote:Yes, Tommy, I have desires. Sometimes even desires that run contrary to the law. And funny enough, because the law is there I don't do that which I desire. Unless I think I won't get caught. The difference is, my desires do not include murdering people, raping them etc, and I don't need a monstrous death God with a disgusting moral record himself to tell me not to. You apparently do.

And if you did have a desire to murder people, or rape people, and thought you won't get caught, you perhaps would engage in these behaviors. The only reason you don't do these things, is primarily because you have no real desire to do them, and a fear of getting caught by the authorities.

Quote:My moral code is my own. I have no problem with that. Your moral code you claim is based off some stupid book, but the stupid book includes gems like stoning your son for disobedience, so unless you really are that fucken dumb, your morals are subjective too.

Your moral code is do as you desire, and avoid getting caught.

"Tell me, muse, of the storyteller who has been thrust to the edge of the world, both an infant and an ancient, and through him reveal everyman." ---Homer the aged poet.

"In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it."
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06-12-2016, 07:05 AM
RE: Christian vs. Humanist Morality
(05-12-2016 07:44 PM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(05-12-2016 07:34 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  He finds the nihilist atheists more intune to him because he just doesn't want to grasp subtly and nuisance in the world of actual philosophy and the ideas of humanism.

I think what actually happens is that many people tend to conflate their incoherency, with subtlity and nuance.

And aren't you a moral nihilist? I thought you indicated in the past that you were?
Yes but differently than how folks like stevil or finney have described it as saying there is no morality.

I view the idea of moral nihilism as also the range classified as no Inherent morality.

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06-12-2016, 07:07 AM
RE: Christian vs. Humanist Morality
(06-12-2016 07:05 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
Quote:My moral code is my own. I have no problem with that. Your moral code you claim is based off some stupid book, but the stupid book includes gems like stoning your son for disobedience, so unless you really are that fucken dumb, your morals are subjective too.

Your moral code is do as you desire, and avoid getting caught.

And so is yours Smile Dickhead.

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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