Christian vs. Humanist Morality
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02-02-2017, 09:49 AM
RE: Christian vs. Humanist Morality
(02-02-2017 07:07 AM)Naielis Wrote:  I agree with you, but I wanted to comment on your signature. Skepticism is a position. It's a claim that requires justification. The obvious problem is that the claim states ultimate justification is impossible. Skepticism requires certainty to fuel it's doubt.

That is a self-contradictory mess.

Skepticism requires no certainty as it is an attitude of questioning.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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02-02-2017, 09:50 AM
RE: Christian vs. Humanist Morality
(02-02-2017 09:24 AM)Naielis Wrote:  
(02-02-2017 09:14 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  You listed the foundation for Skepticism, but then claim there is no foundation for it? Shocking

I listed the basic principle. This should be foundational. But it isn't. Because it too must be questioned. Nothing is known in skepticism.

No one ever claimed that skepticism is a body of knowledge and that this makes it without foundation. It is a method of inquiry to try and attain knowledge. That doesn't mean it is without foundation. You are misconstruing what it means to be a skeptic and I am unsure why.

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02-02-2017, 09:55 AM
RE: Christian vs. Humanist Morality
(02-02-2017 09:43 AM)adey67 Wrote:  Welcome to the forum, no offence but I'm struggling to get where you are coming from rather a lot of word salad, are you or are you not claiming the position that we require a supernatural deity and or must borrow morality from a belief system ? In plain English please state your theological / philosophical position because I cannot work out where you're coming from from your previous posts thank you.
Ps, your previous post is much clearer got you now thanks

I'm a substance dualist and rationalist. I believe in the necessary first cause is a mind. I think the humanist morality is based on an ad hoc assertion that doesn't seem to follow from the pragmatist or empiricist epistemologies. It seems that most atheists have a subjectivist worldview. I'm contesting the cogency of this worldview.

"I think part of the appeal of mathematical logic is that the formulas look mysterious - you write backward Es!" - Hilary Putnam
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02-02-2017, 09:56 AM
RE: Christian vs. Humanist Morality
(02-02-2017 09:50 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  No one ever claimed that skepticism is a body of knowledge and that this makes it without foundation. It is a method of inquiry to try and attain knowledge. That doesn't mean it is without foundation. You are misconstruing what it means to be a skeptic and I am unsure why.

I posted a link to an entry on skepticism. This is true skepticism. It's an epistemological framework: not a method.

"I think part of the appeal of mathematical logic is that the formulas look mysterious - you write backward Es!" - Hilary Putnam
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02-02-2017, 09:57 AM
RE: Christian vs. Humanist Morality
(02-02-2017 09:55 AM)Naielis Wrote:  
(02-02-2017 09:43 AM)adey67 Wrote:  Welcome to the forum, no offence but I'm struggling to get where you are coming from rather a lot of word salad, are you or are you not claiming the position that we require a supernatural deity and or must borrow morality from a belief system ? In plain English please state your theological / philosophical position because I cannot work out where you're coming from from your previous posts thank you.
Ps, your previous post is much clearer got you now thanks

I'm a substance dualist and rationalist. I believe in the necessary first cause is a mind. I think the humanist morality is based on an ad hoc assertion that doesn't seem to follow from the pragmatist or empiricist epistemologies. It seems that most atheists have a subjectivist worldview. I'm contesting the cogency of this worldview.

Ok so you're kind of a theist am I understanding you correctly?
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02-02-2017, 09:59 AM
RE: Christian vs. Humanist Morality
Hello. Smile

(02-02-2017 09:55 AM)Naielis Wrote:  I believe in the necessary first cause is a mind.

Consider

Okay, why?

Why a 'Mind'? Or... why any 'cognitive' thing?

Consider
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02-02-2017, 10:00 AM
RE: Christian vs. Humanist Morality
(02-02-2017 09:56 AM)Naielis Wrote:  
(02-02-2017 09:50 AM)TheBeardedDude Wrote:  No one ever claimed that skepticism is a body of knowledge and that this makes it without foundation. It is a method of inquiry to try and attain knowledge. That doesn't mean it is without foundation. You are misconstruing what it means to be a skeptic and I am unsure why.

I posted a link to an entry on skepticism. This is true skepticism. It's an epistemological framework: not a method.

An epistemological framework IS a method of inquiry. I don't know why you're hung up on this

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02-02-2017, 10:04 AM
RE: Christian vs. Humanist Morality
(02-02-2017 09:49 AM)Chas Wrote:  That is a self-contradictory mess.
Skepticism requires no certainty as it is an attitude of questioning.

An attitude of questioning requires knowledge. How does the skeptic know the reasoning process they used to arrive at skepticism was not flawed? The skeptic fails to provide a coherent worldview upon which it can counter other worldviews.

"I think part of the appeal of mathematical logic is that the formulas look mysterious - you write backward Es!" - Hilary Putnam
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02-02-2017, 10:05 AM
RE: Christian vs. Humanist Morality
(02-02-2017 10:04 AM)Naielis Wrote:  
(02-02-2017 09:49 AM)Chas Wrote:  That is a self-contradictory mess.
Skepticism requires no certainty as it is an attitude of questioning.

An attitude of questioning requires knowledge. How does the skeptic know the reasoning process they used to arrive at skepticism was not flawed? The skeptic fails to provide a coherent worldview upon which it can counter other worldviews.

So you think skeptics have no knowledge from which to question from? Skeptics can't have world-views? Wtf?

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
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02-02-2017, 10:08 AM
RE: Christian vs. Humanist Morality
(02-02-2017 07:03 AM)Naielis Wrote:  You haven't given a justification for your moral claims. You've just asserted your subjectivist morality onto everyone else.

We need not "justify" anything. We need only practice it.

Oh, and all morality is subjective because it is a value judgement. "Objective morality" is an oxymoron.

I'm sorry, but your beliefs are much too silly to take seriously. Got anything else we can discuss?
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