Christian with a question II
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
07-08-2016, 08:24 AM
RE: Christian with a question II
Isn't it amazing that the guy now has buried his head in the sand?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Born Again Pagan's post
07-08-2016, 09:02 AM
RE: Christian with a question II
(06-08-2016 08:18 PM)I Am Wrote:  
(06-08-2016 05:37 PM)Shai Hulud Wrote:  I admit to hoping someone would get the double meaning and post everyone's favorite Ferengi barkeep. Big Grin Now let us all hope he never becomes real and a god. In before someone says "he's just as fictional as your god" and we'll agree to disagree.

Though if Quark were God, I'd hope Odo would be the Devil...

I think Alan Watts would agree with you.



Got to love the Book of Job; noticed back when I was a Baptist it switched between "just a story" and "inerrant", depending on if someone brought up "Why is Satan in Heaven talking to God like an attorney?"

Need to think of a witty signature.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Shai Hulud's post
07-08-2016, 11:32 AM
RE: Christian with a question II
(07-08-2016 09:02 AM)Shai Hulud Wrote:  
(06-08-2016 08:18 PM)I Am Wrote:  I think Alan Watts would agree with you.



Got to love the Book of Job; noticed back when I was a Baptist it switched between "just a story" and "inerrant", depending on if someone brought up "Why is Satan in Heaven talking to God like an attorney?"

Because God couldn't find an attorney in heaven. Drinking Beverage

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 8 users Like Chas's post
07-08-2016, 11:35 AM
RE: Christian with a question II
I'm not exactly certain as to why I'm responding to this drongo—must be fatal attraction?

(06-08-2016 12:44 PM)Phu Cat Wrote:  Is there some chance you might have thought there is some evidence that hasn't been discovered yet that will show that our world was actually created by an intelligent being?
Nope. Not the slightest. I think you're confusing "intelligent beings" with "supernatural entities". Two different things entirely.


Quote:For instance, like DNA. Many years ago we had no idea what that was and now we see just how intricate and tied together our cells are and that for the intricacies of DNA to just have happened by chance is pretty unlikely.
Well..... fucking duh. We now know all about DNA solely because of modern scientific research. And if DNA's always existed as one of the human body's building blocks, then why doesn't your bible mention it, even in passing? Surely you god would've said something about such a vital part of his human creation? But then again your god never made any mention of two of the main killers of humans—strokes and cancers did he? Why did he not fix those design faults, or issue a recall notice?

You're obviously not too clued up on mathematical probability either. You reckon that DNA developing just by chance is "pretty unlikely". So is me winning $30 million in the State lottery. But each and every week, someone does—although the odds are in the order of 8,146,000 to one for 6 out of 45 numbers. Considering the multi-trillion options for random, spontaneous electro-biochemical reactions to occur across billions of galaxies convinces me there was no need to manufacture or mythologise a god, or gods to explain the creation [sic] of life on earth.

Quote:For all we know someday someone may discover something deeper inside DNA that further defines its subsystems to a level we'd never experienced of before.
Totally agree. But so what? Are you implying it's gonna be your imaginary god that explains it, rather than the established research sciences? Or are you just a little confused maybe?

Quote:Are atheists so close minded they are sure they know everything there is to know about our universe?
Nope; we're not "close minded" at all. But we're also not so open-minded such that—like most theists—our brains fall out LOL. Theists would have to rank as one of the more gullible sub-species on the planet when it comes to sucking up myths and fairy stories like a dry sponge.

And for a theist—who believes in a mythical god—to claim to know more about the science of our universe than an atheist is truly laughable.

[Image: helping-the-retarded-to-know-god.jpg]

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like SYZ's post
07-08-2016, 12:31 PM
RE: Christian with a question II
[Image: e7b5194c692f2c42e20825f44f0aef0f.jpg]

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 12 users Like RocketSurgeon76's post
07-08-2016, 02:29 PM
RE: Christian with a question II
(07-08-2016 11:32 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(07-08-2016 09:02 AM)Shai Hulud Wrote:  Got to love the Book of Job; noticed back when I was a Baptist it switched between "just a story" and "inerrant", depending on if someone brought up "Why is Satan in Heaven talking to God like an attorney?"

Because God couldn't find an attorney in heaven. Drinking Beverage

...I cannot argue against this. (Unless South Park is right and only the Mormons go to Heaven, in that case he wanted one who was willing to actually work instead of proselytize.)

Need to think of a witty signature.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
07-08-2016, 03:17 PM (This post was last modified: 07-08-2016 05:36 PM by Reltzik.)
RE: Christian with a question II
(06-08-2016 12:44 PM)Phu Cat Wrote:  Is there some chance you might have thought there is some evidence that hasn't been discovered yet that will show that our world was actually created by an intelligent being? For instance, like DNA. Many years ago we had no idea what that was and now we see just how intricate and tied together our cells are and that for the intricacies of DNA to just have happened by chance is pretty unlikely. For all we know someday someone may discover something deeper inside DNA that further defines its subsystems to a level we'd never experienced of before.

Are atheists so close minded they are sure they know everything there is to know about our universe?

Phu Cat

Okay, first off, as many have pointed out, your examples regarding DNA are completely ludicrous. That "happened by chance" line? Jettison that right now. It's boiler-plate apologist propaganda deliberately and maliciously designed to poison our every interaction with the concept of evolution, so that we can never give it a fair hearing because it's been replaced with a clownish caricature in our heads before we even hear it. Even posting the words reveals that you are so close-minded that you would rather spout parodies of the positions you are criticizing than actually understand those positions before criticizing them.

Evolution is NOT by chance, any more than water flowing downhill and carving out riverbeds is by chance. There's no intention behind it, and the exact paths of the eventual rivers may not be predestined, but in general terms it's the only thing that can happen given the basic ingredients of water, gravity, and erosion. So too with evolution. The details of which species would evolve with which attributes may not have been predestined, but the general trend of species adapting over time into forms more suitable to their environments was the only way things could play out, once life began and spread enough that it wasn't in danger of just poofing out from one or two mutations.

Furthermore, there's no place left in DNA for any new discovery to hide. Human DNA has been sequenced down to the individual atoms, and atoms have been mapped down subatomic particles and from there to fundamental particles. Same for a lot of other species. (The findings, btw, thoroughly confirm the evolutionary model.) If there's anything left to discover "deeper inside DNA", it would be at the level of fundamental particles... which would put it inside ALL matter, not DNA specifically. That's not to say we know everything about DNA... how it does certain things, what variations have what effects, basically how it interacts with other DNA and the rest of the world, there's some gaps to be filled in there. But there's no place deeper down for anything to hide.

And, of course, NONE of this is in contradiction with an abstract notion of a god. There's nothing in the idea that evolution has happened since the moment the universe began that invalidates the idea that a god began it, and nothing in the idea of a god that would disallow evolution. What it DOES do is contradict some (but not all) creation myths, and in particular the literal Abrahamic 6-day creation fable.

But all that said, that wasn't your real question. That was just a very, very, very, very, very poor example that you tacked onto your question.

I'm open to the idea that there was an intelligent creator. I have no means to disprove deism. I have no reason to think it's true, but I also don't reject it in any sense save that of the unsupported hypothesis. I'm also very apathetic about it. A deistic god that just created the universe and walked away... doesn't matter any more, not to us. What evidence is there for this? None. What evidence COULD exist to show this? Ummm... MAYBE the transcendental number message example provided (as fiction) at the end of Carl Sagan's Contact (the book, not the movie). I go back and forth on whether that would count, but I'd call that moderate (but not clinching) evidence in favor of an intelligent creator, if that evidence actually existed outside of fiction. But most of the moment of the universe's beginning seems to be lost in the sheer high-energy chaos immediately following the Big Bang, so I can't think of much evidence that could possibly be left. Certainly the teleological arguments put forth by apologists do nothing but muddy the water... and by muddy, I mean "crap liquid diarrhetic shit into the water". They've offered nothing of value and plenty that was pure crap, and if there is a legitimate argument for an original intelligent creator to be had out there, they've done nothing but drown it out with their garbage.

But, of course, we're not talking about a deistic god. You're here to try to sell us on a PRESENT god, one that continued to interact with the world well past the moment of creation, performing such miracles like flooding the entire world, sending a half-god miracle-man version of himself to do a bunch of miracles and then be sacrificed to himself, and going on to answer all varieties of prayers in ways that cannot be statistically measured to any degree of significance. THAT type of god can be firmly discounted on the basis of the absence of the advertised miracles, by any statistically sound methodology.

So did an intelligent designer create the universe? I don't care. Is an interactive, interventionist god like the Christian god remotely supported by evidence? No, and every claim of such a being that is remotely testable has been shown false to the exact degree that it is testable. What evidence would support it? Statistically and empirically validated and testable miracles... to start with. We'd also need some means of establishing reliable and verifiable communication (no, answered prayers don't count, far too subjective and too easy to make up), and then we could start asking questions.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like Reltzik's post
07-08-2016, 05:29 PM
RE: Christian with a question II
(07-08-2016 11:32 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(07-08-2016 09:02 AM)Shai Hulud Wrote:  Got to love the Book of Job; noticed back when I was a Baptist it switched between "just a story" and "inerrant", depending on if someone brought up "Why is Satan in Heaven talking to God like an attorney?"

Because God couldn't find an attorney in heaven. Drinking Beverage

[Image: hell-air-conditioned.jpg]

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 7 users Like RocketSurgeon76's post
07-08-2016, 05:45 PM
RE: Christian with a question II
(06-08-2016 12:44 PM)Phu Cat Wrote:  For instance, like DNA. [/size]

You think it's plausible that DNA can be created instantly because someone wanted it to exist?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
07-08-2016, 06:23 PM
RE: Christian with a question II
(06-08-2016 12:44 PM)Phu Cat Wrote:  Is there some chance you might have thought there is some evidence that hasn't been discovered yet that will show that our world was actually created by an intelligent being? For instance, like DNA. Many years ago we had no idea what that was and now we see just how intricate and tied together our cells are and that for the intricacies of DNA to just have happened by chance is pretty unlikely. For all we know someday someone may discover something deeper inside DNA that further defines its subsystems to a level we'd never experienced of before.

Are atheists so close minded they are sure they know everything there is to know about our universe?

Phu Cat

I think a better question is that are Christians and Muslims and all other religious types in the world so close minded that they actually think their ancestors from thousands of years ago had all the answers to life and how the universe formed during a time when they had no idea where the sun went at night time.

no, seriously, think about that. All your answers to life and how the universe was made was written by completely random people who never once met each other or live during the same time or place living on one tiny little spec in the middle east only and these people had not even the slightest clue where the sun went at night time and you want me to believe that the shitty arcaic babblings they wrote down about how the universe was made because bible!? Are you fucking kidding me?!

Let me ask you something. Let's say you had a mother fucking time machine. You are the kind of person who would bring back a computer in time to the year 2382 BC and find the nearest goat herder and try to get them to tell you what is wrong with it and fully expect them to know more about computers than we know about computers today, when in fact they have not the slightest idea what you are saying to them and the box that lights up is scaring them and they think you are a witch.


My Youtube channel if anyone is interested.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCEkRdbq...rLEz-0jEHQ
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like Shadow Fox's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: