Christian with a question....
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15-06-2016, 09:24 AM
RE: Christian with a question....
(15-06-2016 08:46 AM)Phu Cat Wrote:  [size=medium]God could have literally snapped his fingers and populated the entire Earth with as many people as he wanted.

That's true Banjo, He can do anything. But God loves you and He loves me. Just as He loves everyone else on this earth. He wanted children to be born to loving, nurturing parents. People that will take care of that child as if it was themself. Some people won't do that, creating children indiscriminately. This is part of the reason children coming from one parent homes are so often not the best students, even falling in with the bad crowds at very young ages. Some children, the rare exception, pull themselves up by the bootstraps and get out of those hellholes. A couple may even be atheists. But sooner or later they're going to see the light and realize they didn't do it on their own. They had help that they weren't aware of. And He is always there whether YOU realize it or not, too. It's going to happen. Once you die it's too late. You're going to see Him on the other side.

Phu Cat

I suspect you might have been created indiscriminately. Maybe your lack of education is what makes you so afraid of Jesus.
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15-06-2016, 10:13 AM
RE: Christian with a question....
(15-06-2016 08:46 AM)Phu Cat Wrote:  He wanted children to be born to loving, nurturing parents.

....

....

Would this be the same god that littered throughout the Bible passages that are easily and frequently interpreted to mean that parents should beat their children (spare the rod and spoil the child), to punish, ostracize, and even kill their children for being gay, and included very specific instructions (not open to interpretation at all) about how it is permissible to sell your daughters into a marriage for a fixed quantity of silver, without her consent? I'm asking because you haven't put a stake in the ground yet, that I am aware of, on the subject of Biblical inerrancy, so maybe you're just going to handwave all those passages away as inaccurate.

(15-06-2016 08:46 AM)Phu Cat Wrote:  Some children, the rare exception, pull themselves up by the bootstraps and get out of those hellholes. ... But sooner or later they're going to see the light and realize they didn't do it on their own. They had help that they weren't aware of.

.... huh. So many questions about this world view.

In ALL of these cases, they didn't do it on their own? Every single one? In that case, you're saying that individual effort makes no difference in this. It's not enough that such a child apply themselves with spirit and determination to their circumstances... not unless Someone (who, apparently, leaves no distinguishing evidence of their handiwork or particular identity) comes in and helps. And on the other hand, if such a child does NOT make an effort to pull themselves out by their bootstraps, then either their lack of determination makes no difference and this Someone helps anyway, or it DOES make a difference and this Someone's power is limited to helping those who either help themselves or already have help from elsewhere. Is that it? If so, you're not really describing the omnipotent God of Christianity. You're describing someone else.

Nor would it make a difference if they had, say, mentoring from a good teacher in their school, nor inspiration from a hero, nor support from charities or community centers... all of that's irrelevant. It's all about whether your Someone helped them. Nor, for that matter, would it matter if they DID have two parents, nor if their parents were supportive or abusive. The outcome would always just boil down to whether that Someone was helping or not. And if so, apparently this Someone has a much greater love for children with rich families, from good communities, in good schools, in prosperous nations with good medical facilities, and with loving, supportive, and empowering parents, compared to children lacking in any or all of these... at least, if we were to gauge by who this Someone helps and who they don't. Is that the case? If so, you're not describing the Jesus of Christianity, at least not anything like he is popularly conceived.

And if you're wrong about credit for these remarkable success stories being possible only with aid from your god... not just if you're wrong about that god existing, but even if you're wrong only about whether this god intervened in their lives rather than let them succeed on their own... then you are doing an incredible, despicable disservice to these amazing people. Think about the obstacles they would have overcome on their own, without the help of others and often despite their interference. Think of the majesty of spirit and triumph of effort in the face of adversity. And then you take all that credit from them, ALL of it, deny them their due praise, and instead hand it to Someone who was sitting on the sidelines all along, capable of easily doing away with all this adversity but choosing not to lift a single finger in their aid.
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15-06-2016, 11:30 AM
RE: Christian with a question....
(15-06-2016 09:24 AM)Aliza Wrote:  
(15-06-2016 08:46 AM)Phu Cat Wrote:  [size=medium]God could have literally snapped his fingers and populated the entire Earth with as many people as he wanted.

That's true Banjo, He can do anything. But God loves you and He loves me. Just as He loves everyone else on this earth. He wanted children to be born to loving, nurturing parents. People that will take care of that child as if it was themself. Some people won't do that, creating children indiscriminately. This is part of the reason children coming from one parent homes are so often not the best students, even falling in with the bad crowds at very young ages. Some children, the rare exception, pull themselves up by the bootstraps and get out of those hellholes. A couple may even be atheists. But sooner or later they're going to see the light and realize they didn't do it on their own. They had help that they weren't aware of. And He is always there whether YOU realize it or not, too. It's going to happen. Once you die it's too late. You're going to see Him on the other side.

Phu Cat

I suspect you might have been created indiscriminately. Maybe your lack of education is what makes you so afraid of Jesus.

Laugh out load That was *beautiful*. Elegantly put.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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15-06-2016, 11:55 AM
RE: Christian with a question....
Maybe your lack of education is what makes you so afraid of Jesus.


Darned shame you miss the whole point. I sure don't fear Jesus, I love Him and look forward to meeting Him. The sooner the better. In fact, I hope it's within my life time.

But you have to admit, we don't know everything there is to know about our little section of the world yet. What if someday they discover something that proves beyond the shadow of a doubt that there is a God. Then what? You can't say it won't happen, you never know. If scientists continue to discover things at the rate they have in the last 20 years, the next 20 should prove to be pretty darned interesting.

Phu Cat
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15-06-2016, 11:57 AM
RE: Christian with a question....
By the way, I want to be clear for Aliza's sake that I was not taking a poke at modern Jews or Judaism, which seem to have come to the same conclusion I did, namely that the tribalism of ancient Israelites was barbaric and brutal, and warped by the tribal thinking of people who lived in a hardscrabble part of Canaan, amid many other groups who'd equally like to wipe them out. Modern (reform) Judaism is in many ways just Secular Humanism with ethnic traditions and holidays.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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15-06-2016, 11:58 AM
RE: Christian with a question....
(15-06-2016 08:46 AM)Phu Cat Wrote:  [size=medium]God could have literally snapped his fingers and populated the entire Earth with as many people as he wanted.

That's true Banjo, He can do anything. But God loves you and He loves me. Just as He loves everyone else on this earth. He wanted children to be born to loving, nurturing parents. People that will take care of that child as if it was themself. Some people won't do that, creating children indiscriminately. This is part of the reason children coming from one parent homes are so often not the best students, even falling in with the bad crowds at very young ages. Some children, the rare exception, pull themselves up by the bootstraps and get out of those hellholes. A couple may even be atheists. But sooner or later they're going to see the light and realize they didn't do it on their own. They had help that they weren't aware of. And He is always there whether YOU realize it or not, too. It's going to happen. Once you die it's too late. You're going to see Him on the other side.

Phu Cat

You have no evidence for any of that. Why would you believe it? Consider

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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15-06-2016, 11:59 AM
RE: Christian with a question....
(15-06-2016 11:55 AM)Phu Cat Wrote:   Maybe your lack of education is what makes you so afraid of Jesus.


Darned shame you miss the whole point. I sure don't fear Jesus, I love Him and look forward to meeting Him. The sooner the better. In fact, I hope it's within my life time.

But you have to admit, we don't know everything there is to know about our little section of the world yet. What if someday they discover something that proves beyond the shadow of a doubt that there is a God. Then what? You can't say it won't happen, you never know. If scientists continue to discover things at the rate they have in the last 20 years, the next 20 should prove to be pretty darned interesting.

Phu Cat

There has never been one shred of evidence for the existence of any gods, ever. Don't hold your breath waiting for some. Drinking Beverage

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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15-06-2016, 12:02 PM
RE: Christian with a question....
(15-06-2016 11:55 AM)Phu Cat Wrote:  Darned shame you miss the whole point. I sure don't fear Jesus, I love Him and look forward to meeting Him. The sooner the better. In fact, I hope it's within my life time.
What was that bullshit about a god-fearing life then? Also you can meet him right now if you like - why are Christians afraid to die, riddle me that?

Quote:But you have to admit, we don't know everything there is to know about our little section of the world yet. What if someday they discover something that proves beyond the shadow of a doubt that there is a God. Then what? You can't say it won't happen, you never know. If scientists continue to discover things at the rate they have in the last 20 years, the next 20 should prove to be pretty darned interesting.
Well, let's see if they do huh? I think it's about as likely as you winning a Nobel prize but as you say, you can't definitively say that it won't happen. Just that the likelihood is minute.

And come on. You've been quoted multiple verses proving that your God is a dipshit. Respond to those quotes. Tell us why we should follow such an immoral monster.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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15-06-2016, 12:10 PM
RE: Christian with a question....
(15-06-2016 11:55 AM)Phu Cat Wrote:  Maybe your lack of education is what makes you so afraid of Jesus.


Darned shame you miss the whole point. I sure don't fear Jesus, I love Him and look forward to meeting Him. The sooner the better. In fact, I hope it's within my life time.

But you have to admit, we don't know everything there is to know about our little section of the world yet. What if someday they discover something that proves beyond the shadow of a doubt that there is a God. Then what? You can't say it won't happen, you never know. If scientists continue to discover things at the rate they have in the last 20 years, the next 20 should prove to be pretty darned interesting.

Oh boy here we go, you can't wait to "meet" Jesus, so you are either eager to die and go to Heaven or you are excited about the rapture and the end of the world where our entire planet will be plunged into a hellish chaos, anyone who isn't Christian will be left behind to fend for themselves as famine, disease and painful death reigns? I hope you don't actually think you're good person for thinking that.

I can say that scientists won't find any hard evidence or proof that a God exists, it's very easy to say that since they haven't yet, there's no reason to believe they will. What if they found out beyond any doubt that there is no God? Would that make you stop believing? Fact is faith can make you believe anything, I could say, "Hey you never know, we might find out Count Chokula is real, at this rate of exponential scientific discovery it could happen!"

You don't need scientific theories or proof to believe in God right now, so why should we sit here and think "Well, there could be proof, may as well believe it!" Yeah well while you're at it might as well believe in unicorns and witches, I mean you never know right? Are you gonna start believing in unicorns, we might find one in the next 20 years? If we don't find any gods or unicorns in the next 20 years does that mean they don't exist? It's a specific time line but sure I'll take it, let's give God 20 years to be proven or to show himself, if not, he's definitely not real. I wouldn't hold my breath.

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15-06-2016, 12:10 PM (This post was last modified: 15-06-2016 12:31 PM by Shai Hulud.)
RE: Christian with a question....
(14-06-2016 06:03 PM)unfogged Wrote:  
(14-06-2016 05:52 PM)Shai Hulud Wrote:  Loathe as I am to break open certain parts of the Bible...some more for that first bit on replying to the whole "certain cities be killed" deal:
1 Samuel 15:2-3
Thus says the Lord of hosts, ‘I have noted what Amalek did to Israel in opposing them on the way when they came up out of Egypt. Now go and strike Amalek and devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.’ ”

(Also ignore the fact that King Saul supposedly wiped out the Amalekites and then in 1 Samuel 15 and 1 Samuel 30 they reappear.)

Are you SURE you aren't an atheist?
Consider
You buy one TTA Travel Mug, listen to a few hundred podcasts, quote a few problematic verses, and make one verbal slip that costs an Evangelical friend and everyone thinks you're a closeted self-denying atheist. Praying every night, belief in Transubstantiation, going to Confession, some "Woo" experiences (which yes, a part of me could probably rationalize in some way involving neurochemical reactions or something), etc. Nah, still a Catholic Christian who loves Jesus. (Or my conception thereof, anyhow.)

I will admit that looking up 1 Samuel was the first time I've cracked open my Bible in a while though. It was reminiscent of when an ex told me "Oh you'll <3 Maccabees because it's like an action movie" and my thought while reading was "So. Many. Dead. And. Yet. So. Dry. I. Can't. Really. Process."

(14-06-2016 06:44 PM)Aliza Wrote:  I am very confused, Phu Cat, as to why you would think anyone would want to be a "God Fearing Christian". From the outside looking in, Christianity is nothing to be proud of, and this terror they feel toward Jesus seems to manifest itself in absolutely horrible ways.

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[Image: Christian+fundamentalist.jpg]

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[Image: Fundamental+08.jpg]

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Why would anyone want this lifestyle for themselves?

Oh, and if you think my perception of Christianity is somehow skewed, then I would like to suggest that you begin by addressing that with your own people before you try to recruit new members.

Good grief, I apologize for my home state of WV for that sign, and contend that I dodged a bullet with one school I interviewed with...WBC has picketed them weekly for the last year, and the first pic made me think of them. And reason is the enemy of faith? That Baptist church wasn't a big fan of Pope John Paul II's "Fides et Ratio" encyclical I think...heh.

(15-06-2016 11:55 AM)Phu Cat Wrote:   Maybe your lack of education is what makes you so afraid of Jesus.


Darned shame you miss the whole point. I sure don't fear Jesus, I love Him and look forward to meeting Him. The sooner the better. In fact, I hope it's within my life time.

But you have to admit, we don't know everything there is to know about our little section of the world yet. What if someday they discover something that proves beyond the shadow of a doubt that there is a God. Then what? You can't say it won't happen, you never know. If scientists continue to discover things at the rate they have in the last 20 years, the next 20 should prove to be pretty darned interesting.

Phu Cat

Considering Aliza is our fellow theist, I think she already admits there is a God. Also, my kudos to you for the phrasing on meeting the Lord. Far too often, people seem to want to meet Christ so badly they end up actively wishing for Armageddon to come about, and that's something you haven't been doing at all in the thread. Sorry to go on a tangent there, it just bugs me sometimes (and again, you didn't do this) when people are so wrapped up in wanting to go to Heaven, they don't bother to think about the pain and suffering of those that they would leave on Earth for torment.

Need to think of a witty signature.
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