Christian with a question....
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15-06-2016, 12:34 PM
RE: Christian with a question....
(15-06-2016 11:55 AM)Phu Cat Wrote:  What if someday they discover something that proves beyond the shadow of a doubt that there is a God. Then what?

Then I'd accept the claim. Since there is no good evidence as of yet (proof is beside the point by the way) it is irrational to believe any of it now.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
America July 4 1776 - November 8 2016 RIP
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15-06-2016, 12:54 PM
RE: Christian with a question....
(15-06-2016 12:34 PM)unfogged Wrote:  
(15-06-2016 11:55 AM)Phu Cat Wrote:  What if someday they discover something that proves beyond the shadow of a doubt that there is a God. Then what?

Then I'd accept the claim. Since there is no good evidence as of yet (proof is beside the point by the way) it is irrational to believe any of it now.

But what about the risk of being mistaken for space-corn by the cosmic chicken and eaten??? Surely you should wear an anti-chicken suit at all times just in case there really is a cosmic chicken.

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If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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15-06-2016, 12:55 PM
RE: Christian with a question....
(15-06-2016 11:55 AM)Phu Cat Wrote:   Maybe your lack of education is what makes you so afraid of Jesus.


Darned shame you miss the whole point. I sure don't fear Jesus, I love Him and look forward to meeting Him. The sooner the better. In fact, I hope it's within my life time.

But you have to admit, we don't know everything there is to know about our little section of the world yet. What if someday they discover something that proves beyond the shadow of a doubt that there is a God. Then what? You can't say it won't happen, you never know. If scientists continue to discover things at the rate they have in the last 20 years, the next 20 should prove to be pretty darned interesting.

Phu Cat

For the record, most of us here are atheists in the sense that we do not believe a god exists, not in the sense that we actively affirm that none exists. So if there's going to be convincing proof out there... great! Let's wait for there to be actual proof one way or another instead of pestering people about it with rampant and baseless speculation!

.... oh, and also, if we hope for science to come up with proof, we should probably have a stern word with that large swathe of Christianity opposed to the scientific endeavor that insists on cutting science funding, twists and manipulates scientific findings to its own ends and away from the actual facts, and tries to shut down science education in general and education into evolution specifically. Where they can't, they distort it into... well, into the sort of non-scientific garbage you were spouting a few pages back. In any case, someone should rein those asshats in.

..... you know what? Why wait for "Science" in general? WE CAN DO SCIENCE! Well, we can talk about it at least. So let's start here! Let's formulate all this in scientific terms.

So, basic scientific methodology at work here. If the existence of a God is going to be a scientific proposition, then it must be falsifiable -- that is, there must be some sort of evidence that, if it were false, could exist to show that it is false. Ideally what would count as evidence against the hypothesis (a god existing) should be identified before we know if it actually exists, to avoid some very unscientific post-hoc rationalization.

Since you think God might possibly be proven scientifically, how would you go about falsifying this? What evidence (which we don't know yet is out there) would show that God DOESN'T exist? Remember, scientific methodology requires a hypothesis be falsifiable.

... of course, if you can't think of way to falsify the proposition of a god existing... and frankly, neither can I... then perhaps the entire concept of a god is of the sort that science simply cannot process. Something that not only isn't right, but not even wrong. If so, then it's just incoherent gibberish, saying nothing about anything that we can actually register as either true OR false.

Anyhow, let's get to it! Find falsification criteria! FOR SCIENCE! Assuming you have any enthusiasm for the possibility at all, that is.
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15-06-2016, 01:58 PM
RE: Christian with a question....
(15-06-2016 11:55 AM)Phu Cat Wrote:   Maybe your lack of education is what makes you so afraid of Jesus.


Darned shame you miss the whole point. I sure don't fear Jesus, I love Him and look forward to meeting Him. The sooner the better. In fact, I hope it's within my life time.

But you have to admit, we don't know everything there is to know about our little section of the world yet. What if someday they discover something that proves beyond the shadow of a doubt that there is a God. Then what? You can't say it won't happen, you never know. If scientists continue to discover things at the rate they have in the last 20 years, the next 20 should prove to be pretty darned interesting.

Phu Cat

"A" god, sure there might be one. But your god--that angry dad in the sky, who sends humans to heaven and hell, who loves the smell of sacrifices--that's not the god that is going to be discovered. Vaguely possible that there's going to be the watchmaker. Impossible: a personal god who interferes with human events.

I'll take my chances on being wrong about the second kind of god existing.
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15-06-2016, 03:18 PM
RE: Christian with a question....
(15-06-2016 11:55 AM)Phu Cat Wrote:   Maybe your lack of education is what makes you so afraid of Jesus.


Darned shame you miss the whole point. I sure don't fear Jesus, I love Him and look forward to meeting Him. The sooner the better. In fact, I hope it's within my life time.

But you have to admit, we don't know everything there is to know about our little section of the world yet. What if someday they discover something that proves beyond the shadow of a doubt that there is a God. Then what? You can't say it won't happen, you never know. If scientists continue to discover things at the rate they have in the last 20 years, the next 20 should prove to be pretty darned interesting.

Phu Cat

Darned shame you miss the whole point. NO one who EVER wrote of jesus, knew him, not even Paul. The synoptic gospels are pseudonymous works and were not written by their namesakes. Every magic story within the bible can be disproved by archaeological, historical and contemporary evidence. For example, the mythical global flood of 2349 BCE did not occur, neither did the exodus, and moses was a fictional character, who did not write the Pentateuch. All the jesus quotes you have memorized were written down by non eyewitnesses who were either not born yet when he died, or never met jesus...thus it is all based on hearsay...stories...urban myth...people love to tell stories, and exaggerate them with each retelling. We know it was stories because the magic can be disproved. One small example:

Matthew 27:51-53
King James Version (KJV)
51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,

53 And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.

wow...so zombies...freaking ZOMBIES crawled out of the ground and "appeared unto many"...and yet...yet...not one literate person at the time thought this was noteworthy enough to write down...nope 50 years later voila! the story is written down after having had this urban legend passed down from person to person...or perhaps completely made up at the time the BS story was fabricated. hmmmmm now a thinking person would suspect that someone at the time would have thought...wow, zombies! and put it into the written record...nope, not...one...word..in ...contemporary history.

Perhaps Philo of alexandria who was a reknown and respected historian who resided in this area during the time of jesus?...nope...but then of course, he never even mentions jesus

The early years of the Roman Republic is one of the most historically documented times in history. One of the writers alive during the time of Jesus was Philo-Judaeus (sometimes known as Philo of Alexandria).

Philo was born before the beginning of the Christian era, and lived until long after the reputed death of Christ. He wrote an account of the Jews covering the entire time that Christ is said to have existed on earth. He was living in or near Jerusalem when Christ’s miraculous birth and the Herodian massacre occurred. He was there when Christ made his triumphal entry into Jerusalem. He was there when the crucifixion happened with its attendant earthquake, supernatural darkness and resurrection of the dead took place – when Christ himself rose from the dead and in the presence of many witnesses ascended into heaven.

These amazing marvelous events which must have filled the world with amazement, had they really occurred, were all unknown to him. It was Philo who developed the doctrine of the Logos, or Word, and although this Word incarnate dwelt in that very land and in the presence of multitudes revealed himself and demonstrated his divine powers, Philo saw it not.

Philo might be considered the investigative reporter of his day. He was there on location during the early first century, talking with people who should have remembered or at least heard the stories, observed, taking notes, documenting. He reported nothing about Jesus.

Odd...

Perhaps Justus..There was also a historian named Justus of Tiberius who was a native of Galilee, the homeland of Jesus. He wrote a history covering the time when Christ supposedly lived. This history is now lost, but a ninth century Christian scholar named Photius had read it and wrote: “he [Justus] makes not the least mention of the appearance of Christ, of what things happened to him, or other wonderful works that he did.”

hmmmmmmm maybe...now give me a second...maybe it...was....all...made...up


Look at you learning stuff

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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15-06-2016, 03:43 PM
RE: Christian with a question....
(15-06-2016 03:18 PM)goodwithoutgod Wrote:  Perhaps Justus..There was also a historian named Justus of Tiberius who was a native of Galilee, the homeland of Jesus. He wrote a history covering the time when Christ supposedly lived. This history is now lost, but a ninth century Christian scholar named Photius had read it and wrote: “he [Justus] makes not the least mention of the appearance of Christ, of what things happened to him, or other wonderful works that he did.”

Poor old Photius - reading Justus must have been a bit of a shock!

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(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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15-06-2016, 04:10 PM (This post was last modified: 15-06-2016 06:38 PM by Aliza.)
RE: Christian with a question....
(15-06-2016 11:55 AM)Phu Cat Wrote:   Maybe your lack of education is what makes you so afraid of Jesus.


Darned shame you miss the whole point. I sure don't fear Jesus, I love Him and look forward to meeting Him. The sooner the better. In fact, I hope it's within my life time.

But you have to admit, we don't know everything there is to know about our little section of the world yet. What if someday they discover something that proves beyond the shadow of a doubt that there is a God. Then what? You can't say it won't happen, you never know. If scientists continue to discover things at the rate they have in the last 20 years, the next 20 should prove to be pretty darned interesting.

Phu Cat

Phu Cat, darling, the whole point is that I’d rather not live my life as a True Christian™ because I find that True Christian™ are hate mongers. I thought I made that clear in my previous post. When I think of True Christian™, I think of people who hate me, hate my people, hate my atheist friends, and who mock us, and threaten us with intangible, inconsequential concepts. I find True Christians™ to be self-righteous, pompous, and uneducated about worldly topics such as anything outside their KJV’s and their NIV’s.

Speaking of Christian bibles, their fervent need to make people believe combined with their lack of understanding of Jewish scripture is shameful. The collective inability expressed by Christians to read or comprehend Hebrew should stand as testimony that they’re not only ignorant, but they willfully refuse to educate themselves.

No. No, I do not want to join your band of close-minded merry men because I want live my life treating others with respect. I don’t have time to spend worrying about where people put their penises, and I could care less if a child has two loving mommies or one, hard-working, multi-tasking parent who gets the job done alone. (You didn't even address the possibility that one of those parents may have passed away, leaving the other to raise a household full of children.) I don’t think bombing abortion clinics is a nice way to spend a Sunday afternoon, and I don’t take any pleasure in spreading hate and fear to people to don’t agree with me.

No. No, you don’t spurn me into jealousy and if you want a nickel's worth of advice for free, try fixing your own house before you worry about mine. You go be a True Christian™. Pray and take communion or get baptized in swimming pools, put “Jesus loves you” bumper stickers all over your car, and be all sweet and syrupy to people until they disagree with you, and then threaten them with hell. I, on the other hand, have real work to do. There is a world to fix, and I plan on doing my part (for real).

Edit: Sorry Shai Hulud, you're not a True Christian™. You're too nice and rational to warrant the trademark.
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15-06-2016, 04:18 PM
RE: Christian with a question....
(15-06-2016 11:55 AM)Phu Cat Wrote:  What if someday they discover something that proves beyond the shadow of a doubt that there is a God. Then what?

And what if some day they prove that there isn't. What will you do when they finally show that god is nothing more than a small defect in the temporal lobe? What will you do when they roll out the pill that makes god go away?

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Flesh and blood of a dead star, slain in the apocalypse of supernova, resurrected by four billion years of continuous autocatalytic reaction and crowned with the emergent property of sentience in the dream that the universe might one day understand itself.
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15-06-2016, 04:19 PM
RE: Christian with a question....
(15-06-2016 11:55 AM)Phu Cat Wrote:   Maybe your lack of education is what makes you so afraid of Jesus.


Darned shame you miss the whole point. I sure don't fear Jesus, I love Him and look forward to meeting Him. The sooner the better. In fact, I hope it's within my life time.

But you have to admit, we don't know everything there is to know about our little section of the world yet. What if someday they discover something that proves beyond the shadow of a doubt that there is a God. Then what? You can't say it won't happen, you never know. If scientists continue to discover things at the rate they have in the last 20 years, the next 20 should prove to be pretty darned interesting.

Phu Cat

Doesn't your Bible command you to fear God? the one they used to push on me did. But to answer this question with the same words as I answered your original question. If God is as he is explained in the Old Testament He has no respect coming from me. I have a daughter married to another woman. I hope nobody loves your God enuff to drag her outside the city gates and stone her.
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15-06-2016, 05:22 PM
RE: Christian with a question....
(15-06-2016 11:55 AM)Phu Cat Wrote:  Darned shame you miss the whole point. I sure don't fear Jesus, I love Him and look forward to meeting Him. The sooner the better. In fact, I hope it's within my life time.

What's holding you up? Girly found Jesus long time ago. You must be on the short bus.




#sigh
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