Christian with a question....
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16-06-2016, 05:41 PM
RE: Christian with a question....
(15-06-2016 09:59 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(15-06-2016 09:54 PM)Paleophyte Wrote:  Of course not. That isn't what we do. Volcano firemen mysteriously appear and set them off.

Seriously. Who wants to put out a volcano?!?

The inhabitants of Pompeii and Herculaneum? Consider

What inhabitants? Evil_monster

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16-06-2016, 05:44 PM
RE: Christian with a question....
(16-06-2016 08:59 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  
(15-06-2016 09:45 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  You, and every single Christian that has passed since the religion was created. It started out as an apocalyptic cult, who didn't expect the world to outlive their own generation. "Give no thought for the morrow" was meant to be taken literally, because the world was ending. The religion has been disappointing it's followers ever since, and we have no reason to think the trend will change anytime soon.

QFT

Not just that but since this planet is but a way-station they shit all over it.

As for eschatology here’s a ‘short’ list of Doomsday predictions. It includes predictions by a Who’s Who of people including multiple Popes, Martin Luther, Christopher Columbus, Jacob Bernoulli, John Wesley, the Catholic Apostolic Church, JWs, Louis Farrakhan, Isaac Newton and Rasputin to name but a few.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_da...tic_events

So Phu Cat, get in fucking line. And why didn’t you answer my question posted on the 2nd page of this thread?

You forgot the Great Disappointment of the Seventh Day Adventists 1844 renamed twice that year.. One of the more famous ones.
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16-06-2016, 05:50 PM
RE: Christian with a question....
(16-06-2016 12:28 PM)Reltzik Wrote:  
(16-06-2016 10:15 AM)Phu Cat Wrote:  [size=medium]I don't see a question from you on page 2, Full Circle.

Phu Cat

I think he misremembered or typoed, it's actually at the top of page 3.

... assuming everyone has their preferences set to show the same number of posts per page, which none of us should be assuming. It's post #21.

In any event, there have been a LOT of questions posed to you throughout this, and you've answered hardly any of them... responded to hardly any of them, I should say, since "answering" them is an even higher bar and I'm not sure you ever actually cleared it. I'd suggest you find an hour to actually read through the thread you started, make a list of every question you've been asked, and respond to them, rather than introducing new topics (like your.... creative take on evolution). Otherwise, we might get the sense that you're just here to preach at us instead of talk with us. ... you know, that sense that we're already getting.

You're back to the old Where would Jesus pee? If he had no Y chromosome would he have been gender non specific despite the beard?
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16-06-2016, 05:54 PM
RE: Christian with a question....
(13-06-2016 12:29 PM)Phu Cat Wrote:  So I guess I'm in hot water right off the bat, but here it goes anyway: Could you assume, just for the sake of this question, that there is a god? And you're standing before him on judgement day. God says: "You can go back to earth and live a natural born God-fearing life or be sent directly to hell, which would you choose? Please don't play the "that's never going to happen because there is no god" card just for the sake of this discussion.

Thanks for answering, I'd think this would be a really tough decision.

Phu Cat

I don't assume to know the answer to questions that are resolvable. So I won't assume there is a god in order to answer other hypothetical questions.

I see that you also don't mean any god but a very specific one, and you also want the assumption made that hell exists too.

Go back to a life full of fear and the possibility of hell, or just go to hell? What a loving bastard your God is. Just send me to hell

Being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets
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17-06-2016, 12:24 PM
RE: Christian with a question....
"Jesus's" return was suppose to happen in the life time of his followers around 2000 years ago.

Nobody ever said it Jesus was supposed to return 2000 years ago. Just that we were to be watchful as it could happen at any time and he will come "as a thief in the night". In other words, unexpectedly. While I said I hope it happens in my lifetime I sincerely doubt that it will. I should be so lucky.

As for Full Circle's question: Knowing there would be no accountability I fear I'd have gone back to my old life style of hedonism, self indulgence, being less than responsible. (Not that atheists aren't responsible.) But I was lucky. I had an old girl friend from high school look me up, she loved me enough to show me the error of my ways and turned me around and got me headed in, what I'd call, my right direction.

As far as something happening to prove there is no God,that's going to be pretty amazing. I'm sure you've heard it before that God's fingerprints are all over the place. Here is something I saved some years ago but I don't know who wrote it, it sure wasn't me:
A second scientific verification of a religious belief is the claim of the great monotheistic faiths that the world is the product of intelligent design. Scientists originally thought that whatever the initial conditions of the universe were, eventually the universe would evolve the complex life forms we see today. But during the last forty years or so, scientists have been stunned by the discovery of how complex and sensitive a balance of initial conditions must be given in the Big Bang in order for the universe to permit the origin and evolution of intelligent life in the cosmos. In the various fields of physics and astrophysics, classical cosmology, quantum mechanics, and biochemistry, discoveries have repeatedly disclosed that the existence of intelligent life depends upon a delicate balance . If any one of these were to be slightly altered, the balance would be destroyed and life would not exist. In fact, the universe appears to have been incomprehensibly fine-tuned from the moment of its inception for the production of intelligent life. We now know that life-prohibiting universes are vastly more probable than any life-permitting universe like ours. How much more probable?
The answer is that the chances that the universe should be life-permitting are so infinitesimal as to be incomprehensible and incalculable. For example, Stephen Hawking has estimated that if the rate of the universe’s expansion one second after the Big Bang had been smaller by even one part in a hundred thousand million million, the universe would have re-collapsed into a hot fireball. P. C. W. Davies has calculated that the odds against the initial conditions being suitable for later star formation (without which planets could not exist) is one followed by a thousand billion billion zeroes, at least. He also estimates that a change in the strength of gravity or of the weak force by only one part in 10100 would have prevented a life-permitting universe. There are a number of such quantities and constants present in the big bang which must be fine-tuned in this way if the universe is to permit life. So improbability is multiplied by improbability until our minds are reeling in incomprehensible numbers.

Way out of my pay grade.
Phu Cat
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17-06-2016, 12:38 PM
RE: Christian with a question....
(17-06-2016 12:24 PM)Phu Cat Wrote:  "Jesus's" return was suppose to happen in the life time of his followers around 2000 years ago.

Nobody ever said it Jesus was supposed to return 2000 years ago. Just that we were to be watchful as it could happen at any time and he will come "as a thief in the night". In other words, unexpectedly. While I said I hope it happens in my lifetime I sincerely doubt that it will. I should be so lucky.

Matthew 16:28
Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

Luke 9:27
I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God

Quote:As for Full Circle's question: Knowing there would be no accountability I fear I'd have gone back to my old life style of hedonism, self indulgence, being less than responsible. (Not that atheists aren't responsible.) But I was lucky. I had an old girl friend from high school look me up, she loved me enough to show me the error of my ways and turned me around and got me headed in, what I'd call, my right direction.

The idea that you would be irresponsible if you weren't afraid of a god has nothing to do with atheism. Many of us lead productive lives because we grew up and accepted that responsibility.

Quote:....For example, Stephen Hawking has estimated that if the rate of the universe’s expansion one second after the Big Bang had been smaller by even one part in a hundred thousand million million, the universe would have re-collapsed into a hot fireball.

How can you quote Hawking as support for belief when he is not a believer? All the crap you quoted boils down to "we don't know, therefore god". Yes, there are many unanswered questions but the point is that they are unanswered. Sticking in a god to cover over ignorance is not an answer, just a dodge.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
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17-06-2016, 12:53 PM
RE: Christian with a question....
(17-06-2016 12:24 PM)Phu Cat Wrote:  "Jesus's" return was suppose to happen in the life time of his followers around 2000 years ago.

Nobody ever said it Jesus was supposed to return 2000 years ago. Just that we were to be watchful as it could happen at any time and he will come "as a thief in the night". In other words, unexpectedly. While I said I hope it happens in my lifetime I sincerely doubt that it will. I should be so lucky.

I'm not so familiar with the NT, but I believe it does say that... very specifically. It becomes a failed prophecy.

And what do we do with false prophets? Drinking Beverage

(17-06-2016 12:24 PM)Phu Cat Wrote:  As for Full Circle's question: Knowing there would be no accountability I fear I'd have gone back to my old life style of hedonism, self indulgence, being less than responsible. (Not that atheists aren't responsible.) But I was lucky. I had an old girl friend from high school look me up, she loved me enough to show me the error of my ways and turned me around and got me headed in, what I'd call, my right direction.

Just out of curiosity, if by your own admission you can't be trusted to behave in a civilized manner without the threats of Jesus looming over you, then why should I trust you at all? Why would anyone follow you or have confidence in anything you say?

By your own admission, your core personality is bad and you lack the personal integrity to fix it on your own.

Little tip, saying things like, "Not that atheists aren't responsible" is really condescending. The people here know very well that they're responsible and are not seeking approval or confirmation from you. Besides, it's you who boasts having the flawed personality. Just because you were fucked up without your religion (I'd argue still fucked up, but in a different way) doesn't mean that other people are. The failings of your personality are yours and yours alone.

(17-06-2016 12:24 PM)Phu Cat Wrote:  The answer is that the chances that the universe should be life-permitting are so infinitesimal as to be incomprehensible and incalculable.

I question your ability to rate these statements. I question your ability to evaluate comments from figures such a Stephen Hawking in their proper context.

Do you have a degree in mathematics from a competent university such as MIT or UCLA? Maybe even something from a well rated state university?

Ie: Not Biola.

(17-06-2016 12:24 PM)Phu Cat Wrote:  Way out of my pay grade. Phu Cat

Far more skilled and educated evangelicals have tried their hand in converting the atheists on this forum before you. You hit us with some kindergarten "philosophical" question, but I kind of suspect that you have no idea who your audience is, what they think, or how much they know.
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17-06-2016, 12:58 PM
RE: Christian with a question....
(16-06-2016 02:43 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  
(16-06-2016 01:12 AM)Shai Hulud Wrote:  Hail R2, full of gadgets, the Maker the Lucas is with thee. Blessed are thou among droids and blessed is the fruit of thy electronic womb, the hologram. Oh R2, [possible] creator of BB-8*, come rescue us as you have so many heroes in the hour of our impending deaths, amen?



*No clue if he is or not, I just needed something.

Wow, that felt more wrong than when I worked at McD's as a Baptist and wrote the "Hail Grimace", which was better.

May the Force be with you. (And also with you.)

fuckin' catholics.

#sigh
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17-06-2016, 01:02 PM
RE: Christian with a question....
(17-06-2016 12:53 PM)Aliza Wrote:  
(17-06-2016 12:24 PM)Phu Cat Wrote:  "Jesus's" return was suppose to happen in the life time of his followers around 2000 years ago.

Nobody ever said it Jesus was supposed to return 2000 years ago. Just that we were to be watchful as it could happen at any time and he will come "as a thief in the night". In other words, unexpectedly. While I said I hope it happens in my lifetime I sincerely doubt that it will. I should be so lucky.

I'm not so familiar with the NT, but I believe it does say that... very specifically. It becomes a failed prophecy.

And what do we do with false prophets? Drinking Beverage

(17-06-2016 12:24 PM)Phu Cat Wrote:  As for Full Circle's question: Knowing there would be no accountability I fear I'd have gone back to my old life style of hedonism, self indulgence, being less than responsible. (Not that atheists aren't responsible.) But I was lucky. I had an old girl friend from high school look me up, she loved me enough to show me the error of my ways and turned me around and got me headed in, what I'd call, my right direction.

Just out of curiosity, if by your own admission you can't be trusted to behave in a civilized manner without the threats of Jesus looming over you, then why should I trust you at all? Why would anyone follow you or have confidence in anything you say?

By your own admission, your core personality is bad and you lack the personal integrity to fix it on your own.

Little tip, saying things like, "Not that atheists aren't responsible" is really condescending. The people here know very well that they're responsible and are not seeking approval or confirmation from you. Besides, it's you who boasts having the flawed personality. Just because you were fucked up without your religion (I'd argue still fucked up, but in a different way) doesn't mean that other people are. The failings of your personality are yours and yours alone.

(17-06-2016 12:24 PM)Phu Cat Wrote:  The answer is that the chances that the universe should be life-permitting are so infinitesimal as to be incomprehensible and incalculable.

I question your ability to rate these statements. I question your ability to evaluate comments from figures such a Stephen Hawking in their proper context.

Do you have a degree in mathematics from a competent university such as MIT or UCLA? Maybe even something from a well rated state university?

Ie: Not Biola.

(17-06-2016 12:24 PM)Phu Cat Wrote:  Way out of my pay grade. Phu Cat

Far more skilled and educated evangelicals have tried their hand in converting the atheists on this forum before you. You hit us with some kindergarten "philosophical" question, but I kind of suspect that you have no idea who your audience is, what they think, or how much they know.

Well said, Mormon Jew. Clap

#sigh
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17-06-2016, 01:06 PM (This post was last modified: 17-06-2016 01:11 PM by SitaSky.)
RE: Christian with a question....
(17-06-2016 12:24 PM)Phu Cat Wrote:  "Jesus's" return was suppose to happen in the life time of his followers around 2000 years ago.

Nobody ever said it Jesus was supposed to return 2000 years ago. Just that we were to be watchful as it could happen at any time and he will come "as a thief in the night". In other words, unexpectedly. While I said I hope it happens in my lifetime I sincerely doubt that it will. I should be so lucky.

As for Full Circle's question: Knowing there would be no accountability I fear I'd have gone back to my old life style of hedonism, self indulgence, being less than responsible. (Not that atheists aren't responsible.) But I was lucky. I had an old girl friend from high school look me up, she loved me enough to show me the error of my ways and turned me around and got me headed in, what I'd call, my right direction.

As far as something happening to prove there is no God,that's going to be pretty amazing. I'm sure you've heard it before that God's fingerprints are all over the place. Here is something I saved some years ago but I don't know who wrote it, it sure wasn't me:
A second scientific verification of a religious belief is the claim of the great monotheistic faiths that the world is the product of intelligent design. Scientists originally thought that whatever the initial conditions of the universe were, eventually the universe would evolve the complex life forms we see today. But during the last forty years or so, scientists have been stunned by the discovery of how complex and sensitive a balance of initial conditions must be given in the Big Bang in order for the universe to permit the origin and evolution of intelligent life in the cosmos. In the various fields of physics and astrophysics, classical cosmology, quantum mechanics, and biochemistry, discoveries have repeatedly disclosed that the existence of intelligent life depends upon a delicate balance . If any one of these were to be slightly altered, the balance would be destroyed and life would not exist. In fact, the universe appears to have been incomprehensibly fine-tuned from the moment of its inception for the production of intelligent life. We now know that life-prohibiting universes are vastly more probable than any life-permitting universe like ours. How much more probable?
The answer is that the chances that the universe should be life-permitting are so infinitesimal as to be incomprehensible and incalculable. For example, Stephen Hawking has estimated that if the rate of the universe’s expansion one second after the Big Bang had been smaller by even one part in a hundred thousand million million, the universe would have re-collapsed into a hot fireball. P. C. W. Davies has calculated that the odds against the initial conditions being suitable for later star formation (without which planets could not exist) is one followed by a thousand billion billion zeroes, at least. He also estimates that a change in the strength of gravity or of the weak force by only one part in 10100 would have prevented a life-permitting universe. There are a number of such quantities and constants present in the big bang which must be fine-tuned in this way if the universe is to permit life. So improbability is multiplied by improbability until our minds are reeling in incomprehensible numbers.

Way out of my pay grade.
Phu Cat

The Bible says it, Unfogged already quoted it but seriously how can you sit there and say "no one" said Jesus would be returning within the lifetime of the early Christians when it clearly says it in your holy book, seriously get off this forum, go pick your fucking bible and READ IT! At least do that one thing as a courtesy before you go around talking about your religion as if you're some kind of authority, I've been an atheist for almost 20 years and I know your religion better than you do.

Also you should be so lucky to witness the end of the world? What the actual fuck is wrong with you?

Just because you need religion to be a good person and not live a life of "hedonism" which doesn't even really sound that bad doesn't mean everyone on the planet needs it, I live a happy, productive life with no need for a God myth to make me accountable for my actions. I'm accountable to myself and others, that's enough.

You are seriously going to sit there and try to provide scientific proof for your God after a couple of days ago admitting that science has yet to prove a God? Just because our universe was improbable doesn't mean it's impossible. The reason why life seems so fine tuned and suited for this universe is because it adapted to this universe, it's not like humans were created and then the universe, we came after, our lives are dependent on the this world we live on, the sun it orbits, the galaxy it inhabits, not the other way around. I'll let you ponder this quote from Stephen Hawking:

“When people ask me if a god created the universe, I tell them that the question itself makes no sense. Time didn’t exist before the big bang, so there is no time for god to make the universe in. It’s like asking directions to the edge of the earth; The Earth is a sphere; it doesn’t have an edge; so looking for it is a futile exercise. We are each free to believe what we want, and it’s my view that the simplest explanation is; there is no god. No one created our universe,and no one directs our fate. This leads me to a profound realization; There is probably no heaven, and no afterlife either. We have this one life to appreciate the grand design of the universe, and for that I am extremely grateful.”

You're right, this info is out of your pay grade, so why are you even talking about it like it makes perfect sense to you? It's classic confirmation bias, that's religion for you, science tries to find the answers while Christians are going about shooting arrows and running to paint a bullseye around it.

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