Christian with a question....
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13-06-2016, 03:09 PM (This post was last modified: 13-06-2016 03:15 PM by Full Circle.)
RE: Christian with a question....
(13-06-2016 12:29 PM)Phu Cat Wrote:  So I guess I'm in hot water right off the bat, but here it goes anyway: Could you assume, just for the sake of this question, that there is a god? And you're standing before him on judgement day. God says: "You can go back to earth and live a natural born God-fearing life or be sent directly to hell, which would you choose? Please don't play the "that's never going to happen because there is no god" card just for the sake of this discussion.

Thanks for answering, I'd think this would be a really tough decision.

Phu Cat

Only if you answer the following:

If you absolutely knew that no gods existed, that there would never be any post-mortem punishment, that you would never have to stand before a supernatural being and account for anything, would that change the way you lead your life now?

I’m going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you don’t go around pillaging and raping at the moment. Knowing that there are no gods would you change how you currently treat people? Would you become a grade A1 asshole overnight?

or

Would you continue treating others in a kind manner? Loving your family? Following the societal norms of a civilized society?

I am very curious if you have ever contemplated the above. If you haven’t please do so now and answer me truthfully. Would Phu Cat turn into a sociopath or would you not?

If you answered that you would remain pretty much the same as you are now then congratulations, you’re already a decent human being. I approve.

If you answered “I’d go and do whatever the fuck I want no matter who I hurt” then, Phu Cat, you are already a waste of oxygen and a dick at heart.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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13-06-2016, 03:13 PM
RE: Christian with a question....
Drive-by. Yawn.
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13-06-2016, 03:15 PM
RE: Christian with a question....
(13-06-2016 12:29 PM)Phu Cat Wrote:  So I guess I'm in hot water right off the bat, but here it goes anyway: Could you assume, just for the sake of this question, that there is a god? And you're standing before him on judgement day. God says: "You can go back to earth and live a natural born God-fearing life or be sent directly to hell, which would you choose? Please don't play the "that's never going to happen because there is no god" card just for the sake of this discussion.

Thanks for answering, I'd think this would be a really tough decision.

Phu Cat

So if someone said an ISIS member says in a book he wrote, I'm going to give you a nice house, feed you well and let you live in luxury if you bow before Allah.

Or I'm going to torture you if you don't which would you choose?

Here's the good news though- there's no evidence that this ISIS member even exists, he just wrote this book that says he'll do this, what's your decision?

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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13-06-2016, 03:16 PM
RE: Christian with a question....
Natural born god fearing life. Huh? Huh

[Image: dobie.png]Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man
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13-06-2016, 04:00 PM (This post was last modified: 13-06-2016 04:06 PM by Reltzik.)
RE: Christian with a question....
(13-06-2016 12:29 PM)Phu Cat Wrote:  So I guess I'm in hot water right off the bat, but here it goes anyway: Could you assume, just for the sake of this question, that there is a god? And you're standing before him on judgement day. God says: "You can go back to earth and live a natural born God-fearing life or be sent directly to hell, which would you choose? Please don't play the "that's never going to happen because there is no god" card just for the sake of this discussion.

Thanks for answering, I'd think this would be a really tough decision.

Phu Cat

Some points of clarification.

1) Which God is this? Since you identify yourself as a Christian, I'd GUESS you're talking about the Abrahamic god, but you didn't specify, so maybe you're talking about a more vague and general notion of deity.

2) Would I actually retain knowledge of this encounter into the reincarnated life? If not, what's to ensure that I'd stay on the prescribed god-fearing path? What evidence if God's existence and desires would I retain? In this next life would I be forced to work it all out from first principles (which billions of people demonstrate can't be done) or identify the specific holy text with the correct messages through pure reason (which again billions demonstrate cannot be done) and then the correct interpretation out of all the various sects / denominations / schools / whatever (which, again, billions demonstrate cannot be done)? Or would I retain ignorance of this encounter yet be guaranteed the god-fearing life out of some manner of deterministic pre-destination? Considering that I'd be punished or rewarded based on my deterministic, pre-destined actions and beliefs, that raises more questions than it answers.

Assuming that it's the Abrahamic god, specifically, and that I would retain a clear and firm knowledge of the encounter into the next life, I'd likely go that route. My atheism is principally a function of lack of evidence that any of these religious claims are true, and this would count as evidence... especially since, if I began to doubt it as potentially being a dream or hallucination, I could go revisit some aspect of my past life that my present life had no way of knowing about and so confirm that at least SOMETHING wacky was happening.

.... er, wait, is there time-travel involved? Because if it's already Judgement Day and I'm being sent down to live a normal life.... AT JUDGEMENT DAY... I'm pretty sure that means I have to get sent back into the past. And maybe rescue and/or kill someone named Connor. But in any case, unless I get to some locale where I have zero knowledge of its history, I'd have some way of verifying that I wasn't going batshit insane.

As far as living a "god-fearing" life? Well, having encountered an actual god that was fully prepared to consign me to an actual hell would certainly put me in a state of severe fear here, but what else is involved? I don't care much about money, so tithing isn't a big issue to me individually, and back when I was with the UUs I was quite happy to go to services. Keeping the Commandments -- well, I'm not breaking any of them anyway, unless you count all of Leviticus as "the commandments", in which case NO ONE is keeping them. But... I would refuse to keep silent if I knew about priests abusing children, for example. Is that a failure to be god-fearing? A lot of church-goers and a lot of church hierarchy think so. I would refuse to ostracize, alienate, persecute, vilify, slander, and generally hate on the LGBT community, which a LOT of people in ALL the Abrahamic faiths think is a requirement to being a proper god-fearer. I would not beat a child because of a passage in a book about sparing the rod and spoiling the child. I would not stone a woman for adultery, I would not kill someone for eating pork, and I would not go on a Crusade to conquer a holy land just because someone else held it. In other words, I would not inflict suffering upon others just to save my own hide.

I would also be unable to extol the virtues of the Abrahamic god, at least if it is anything like the genocidal, vindictive, petty, abusive, sadistic figure depicted in all of the Abrahamic holy texts. I'm just not built for that type of lie.

.... also, how could it be a "natural born" life if it was FREAKING REINCARNATION?
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13-06-2016, 04:04 PM (This post was last modified: 20-08-2016 10:30 AM by kim.)
RE: Christian with a question....
(13-06-2016 03:16 PM)Dom Wrote:  Natural born god fearing life. Huh? Huh

I know ... Facepalm right?

I played along. No big whoop. Drinking Beverage

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13-06-2016, 04:50 PM
RE: Christian with a question....
(13-06-2016 12:29 PM)Phu Cat Wrote:  So I guess I'm in hot water right off the bat, but here it goes anyway: Could you assume, just for the sake of this question, that there is a god? And you're standing before him on judgement day. God says: "You can go back to earth and live a natural born God-fearing life or be sent directly to hell, which would you choose? Please don't play the "that's never going to happen because there is no god" card just for the sake of this discussion.

Thanks for answering, I'd think this would be a really tough decision.

Phu Cat

I don't know myself, but I hear 'one-and-done'ers aren't all that popular with prospective partners. Just sayin'. Drinking Beverage

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13-06-2016, 04:51 PM
RE: Christian with a question....
(13-06-2016 12:29 PM)Phu Cat Wrote:  God-fearing

Why do you fear God?

Why do you worship something you fear?

Personally I'd choose hell. Given the apparent temperment of the "God" in question it's likely an improvement over "heaven".

---
Flesh and blood of a dead star, slain in the apocalypse of supernova, resurrected by four billion years of continuous autocatalytic reaction and crowned with the emergent property of sentience in the dream that the universe might one day understand itself.
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13-06-2016, 05:12 PM
RE: Christian with a question....
Phuc Rat, Been hoping you would give us your choice, but hours are speeding by and we don't even know how you would make such a choice, That is not fair. I showed you mine, now show us yours.
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13-06-2016, 05:27 PM (This post was last modified: 13-06-2016 08:35 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Christian with a question....
The question is meaningless. It would only come from a presuppositionalist.
The people from whom Christianity originated did not believe in hell, so why would you ?

Gods who talk and ask questions need time to do that.
Whatever you're talking about is no god.

"No one shall come to me, unless the Father draw him". (Obviously that scripture is meaningless if he draws everyone).

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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