Christian with a question....
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13-06-2016, 05:41 PM
RE: Christian with a question....
G'day, and welcome from Downunder. Smile

(13-06-2016 12:29 PM)Phu Cat Wrote:  So I guess I'm in hot water right off the bat, but here it goes anyway: Could you assume, just for the sake of this question, that there is a god?
I understand that you're posing a hypothetical scenario with this, but as an atheist I'm not prepared to devote much time to religious hypotheticals. It's like asking what sort of car I'd buy if I won the 10 million dollar lottery; a waste of thinking time when I could better spend the time reasoning more profound theories that at least have some chance of resolution.

Quote:Please don't play the "that's never going to happen because there is no god" card just for the sake of this discussion.
That's the same invalid prerequisite as me debating something with you only after I say I'm happy to argue my point on the basis that the Christian god does exist. It obviously and unfairly shifts the goalposts in favour of one party.

Quote:Thanks for answering, I'd think this would be a really tough decision.
Nope; easy decision. If I was ever confronted by some supernatural entity, I'd just cork the bottle, take an aspirin, and go to bed.

PS: Can you please avoid using non-standard font sizes. Thanks.

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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13-06-2016, 05:57 PM
RE: Christian with a question....
If it turned out God and hell were real and God gave me instructions on what I needed to do to avoid hell I would do whatever he said. Hell is being on fire forever. This wouldn't be the time to make some kind of stand. Imagine if you told God you wouldn't do it. After a hundred billion trillion million years and you were still engulfed in flames with every pain receptor at maximum pain levels and you still had FOREVER left to sit in there to burn you'd be like Goddamnit I should have made the fucking deal!!!

Glad it ain't real...
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13-06-2016, 05:58 PM
RE: Christian with a question....
(13-06-2016 12:29 PM)Phu Cat Wrote:  So I guess I'm in hot water right off the bat, but here it goes anyway: Could you assume, just for the sake of this question, that there is a god? And you're standing before him on judgement day. God says: "You can go back to earth and live a natural born God-fearing life or be sent directly to hell, which would you choose? Please don't play the "that's never going to happen because there is no god" card just for the sake of this discussion.

Thanks for answering, I'd think this would be a really tough decision.

Phu Cat

I AM God.

There is only one really serious philosophical question, and that is suicide. -Camus
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13-06-2016, 06:02 PM
RE: Christian with a question....
I don't understand. What is the point of a hypothetical which is so far-fetched that any answer to it will never have any bearing on, well, anything? It's not like an atheist who answers this question along the lines of "Yes, I would live a godly life in that scenario" is going to suddenly start living a godly life in the here and now because the premises that this hypothetical is built on remain absurd pieces of fiction. You would do well to study the history of the concept of Hell, Phu Cat. The Jews did not believe in an eternal place of suffering after death, it was invented by Christian zealots. Why, pray tell, did God not warn the Jewish people about Hell? Is it because God created Hell only after Jesus' birth or because the god of the Bible is a cruel god who did not wish to let people know that their life's choices would determine whether they get to experience eternal bliss or eternal torture or maybe because the whole concept was made up by a group of people who wished to rule others and their children through fear? All of these are interesting questions for you to ponder one day.

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13-06-2016, 06:08 PM
RE: Christian with a question....
(13-06-2016 05:57 PM)ImFred Wrote:  If it turned out God and hell were real and God gave me instructions on what I needed to do to avoid hell I would do whatever he said. Hell is being on fire forever. This wouldn't be the time to make some kind of stand. Imagine if you told God you wouldn't do it. After a hundred billion trillion million years and you were still engulfed in flames with every pain receptor at maximum pain levels and you still had FOREVER left to sit in there to burn you'd be like Goddamnit I should have made the fucking deal!!!

Glad it ain't real...

agreed. fuck morals, at that point. i think everyone is underestimating how terrible an eternity of torture would be.
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13-06-2016, 06:09 PM
RE: Christian with a question....
(13-06-2016 05:57 PM)ImFred Wrote:  If it turned out God and hell were real and God gave me instructions on what I needed to do to avoid hell I would do whatever he said. Hell is being on fire forever. This wouldn't be the time to make some kind of stand. Imagine if you told God you wouldn't do it. After a hundred billion trillion million years and you were still engulfed in flames with every pain receptor at maximum pain levels and you still had FOREVER left to sit in there to burn you'd be like Goddamnit I should have made the fucking deal!!!

Glad it ain't real...

It's actually worse than that, if you go to Hell to burn you won't have your body, since the skin would burn away so you would need a body that can "feel" the pain forever but won't get damaged. Apparently God is fully aware of this, he knows he needed to create the human soul in a way that can feel agony after death, it's totally evil.

The only way to avoid this mind torture is to accept the blood sacrifice of an immortal being that can't die and will live in a paradise forever...so yeah sounds totally fair. Rolleyes

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13-06-2016, 06:27 PM
RE: Christian with a question....
(13-06-2016 12:29 PM)Phu Cat Wrote:  So I guess I'm in hot water right off the bat, but here it goes anyway: Could you assume, just for the sake of this question, that there is a god? And you're standing before him on judgement day. God says: "You can go back to earth and live a natural born God-fearing life or be sent directly to hell, which would you choose? Please don't play the "that's never going to happen because there is no god" card just for the sake of this discussion.

Thanks for answering, I'd think this would be a really tough decision.

Phu Cat

I'm assuming there is a god. (Not sure which god I should assume.)
I'm assuming that I'm still alive after I'm dead. (That's really hard to assume, but sure, why not.)
I'm assuming that this god has the moral capacity to judge my the actions I made in my life.

I'm also assuming that I'm also all powerful.
Given that assumption, this god doesn't have the power to enforce any judgement he, she or it makes.

My choices about what I want to do are endless.

Insanity - doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results
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13-06-2016, 06:32 PM
RE: Christian with a question....
(13-06-2016 06:09 PM)SitaSky Wrote:  
(13-06-2016 05:57 PM)ImFred Wrote:  If it turned out God and hell were real and God gave me instructions on what I needed to do to avoid hell I would do whatever he said. Hell is being on fire forever. This wouldn't be the time to make some kind of stand. Imagine if you told God you wouldn't do it. After a hundred billion trillion million years and you were still engulfed in flames with every pain receptor at maximum pain levels and you still had FOREVER left to sit in there to burn you'd be like Goddamnit I should have made the fucking deal!!!

Glad it ain't real...

It's actually worse than that, if you go to Hell to burn you won't have your body, since the skin would burn away so you would need a body that can "feel" the pain forever but won't get damaged. Apparently God is fully aware of this, he knows he needed to create the human soul in a way that can feel agony after death, it's totally evil.

The only way to avoid this mind torture is to accept the blood sacrifice of an immortal being that can't die and will live in a paradise forever...so yeah sounds totally fair. Rolleyes

Either way, pretending it's real, yeah, he's the boss.
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13-06-2016, 06:43 PM
RE: Christian with a question....
If heaven is real and that's a big if, here are my answers.

If heaven is exclusionary- then I have no interest in being there . If God is the same god depicted in the Bible then no, I have no desire to live with him in heaven.

Now here is a question for you:

What if there ends up being no god and you live your entire existence living to make a magical non-existent deity happy:

--living by *his* rules, loving who *he* says you should love, living the life *he* thinks you should live, enjoying only things *he* thinks you should enjoy, and never living your life for you because you are never making your *own* decisions separate and apart from a non-existent deity--

What kind of life would you live if there were no magical deity watching over you? If your life's desires are not in-line with your religion, wouldn't that be sad that you missed out on so many wonderful experiences?
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13-06-2016, 07:00 PM
RE: Christian with a question....
(13-06-2016 12:29 PM)Phu Cat Wrote:  So I guess I'm in hot water right off the bat, but here it goes anyway: Could you assume, just for the sake of this question, that there is a god? And you're standing before him on judgement day. God says: "You can go back to earth and live a natural born God-fearing life or be sent directly to hell, which would you choose? Please don't play the "that's never going to happen because there is no god" card just for the sake of this discussion.

Thanks for answering, I'd think this would be a really tough decision.

Phu Cat
Wow, great choices.....go back to a life of slavery to an egotistical sadistic mythological transcendental being...or spend eternity as a free spirit in "hell"

Consider


Asking “If there is no god, what is the purpose of life?” is like asking, “If there is no master, whose slave will I be?”

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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