Christian with a question....
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28-06-2016, 06:38 AM
RE: Christian with a question....
(28-06-2016 05:44 AM)unfogged Wrote:  
(26-06-2016 01:46 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Mary didn't seem to mind. She was an avid follower of the Will of GOD.

Still waiting for substantiation of that claim
3:35. (Allâh listened) when a woman of (the family of) Amran said, ‘My Lord! I do hereby vow to You what is in my womb to be dedicated (to Your service); so do accept (it) of me. You alone are the All-Hearing, the All-Knowing.’ 3:36. But when she gave birth to it she said, ‘My Lord! I have given birth to a female.’ Allâh knew best what she had given birth to, and the male (she was thinking of) was not like this female (she had brought forth). ‘I have named her Mary and I do commend her to Your protection and (also) her offspring (to be saved) from satan, the accursed.’ 3:37. So her Lord accepted her (- Mary) with a gracious acceptance and made her grow into an excellent form and assigned her to the care of Zachariah. Every time Zachariah visited her in the chamber he found with her provisions. He said, ‘From where do you get all this, O Mary?’ She replied (with all conscientiousness), ‘It is from Allâh.’ Verily, Allâh provides whomsoever He will without measure. 3:42. (Recall the time) when the angels said, ‘O Mary! Surely Allâh has chosen you and has rid you of all impurities and has preferred you to the women of all (contemporary) people. 3:43. ‘O Mary! Be devout to your Lord and prostrate yourself and bow along with the congregation of the worshippers of God.’

3:45. (Recall the time) when the angels said, ‘O Mary! Allâh gives you good tidings through a (prophetic) word from Him (about the birth of a son) whose name is the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, (he shall be) worthy of regard in this world and in the Hereafter and one of the nearest ones (to Him),

19:30. (It came to pass that the son of Mary) said, ‘I am indeed a servant of Allâh, He has given me the Book, and made me a Prophet. 19:31. ‘And He has made me blessed wherever I may be, and He has enjoined upon me prayer and alms-giving so long as I live. 19:32. ‘And (He has made me) dutiful to my mother, and He has not made me arrogant, graceless. 19:33. ‘And peace was upon me the day I was born, and (peace will be upon me) the day I die, and the day I shall be raised up to life (again).’

That's a start. Gotta get I work. Will continue when free if you still insist.

Peace

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.
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28-06-2016, 07:21 AM
RE: Christian with a question....
(28-06-2016 06:38 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(28-06-2016 05:44 AM)unfogged Wrote:  Still waiting for substantiation of that claim
3:35. (Allâh listened) when a woman of (the family of) Amran said, ‘My Lord! I do hereby vow to You what is in my womb to be dedicated (to Your service); so do accept (it) of me. You alone are the All-Hearing, the All-Knowing.’ 3:36. But when she gave birth to it she said, ‘My Lord! I have given birth to a female.’ Allâh knew best what she had given birth to, and the male (she was thinking of) was not like this female (she had brought forth). ‘I have named her Mary and I do commend her to Your protection and (also) her offspring (to be saved) from satan, the accursed.’ 3:37. So her Lord accepted her (- Mary) with a gracious acceptance and made her grow into an excellent form and assigned her to the care of Zachariah. Every time Zachariah visited her in the chamber he found with her provisions. He said, ‘From where do you get all this, O Mary?’ She replied (with all conscientiousness), ‘It is from Allâh.’ Verily, Allâh provides whomsoever He will without measure. 3:42. (Recall the time) when the angels said, ‘O Mary! Surely Allâh has chosen you and has rid you of all impurities and has preferred you to the women of all (contemporary) people. 3:43. ‘O Mary! Be devout to your Lord and prostrate yourself and bow along with the congregation of the worshippers of God.’

3:45. (Recall the time) when the angels said, ‘O Mary! Allâh gives you good tidings through a (prophetic) word from Him (about the birth of a son) whose name is the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, (he shall be) worthy of regard in this world and in the Hereafter and one of the nearest ones (to Him),

19:30. (It came to pass that the son of Mary) said, ‘I am indeed a servant of Allâh, He has given me the Book, and made me a Prophet. 19:31. ‘And He has made me blessed wherever I may be, and He has enjoined upon me prayer and alms-giving so long as I live. 19:32. ‘And (He has made me) dutiful to my mother, and He has not made me arrogant, graceless. 19:33. ‘And peace was upon me the day I was born, and (peace will be upon me) the day I die, and the day I shall be raised up to life (again).’

That's a start. Gotta get I work. Will continue when free if you still insist.

Peace

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

Monumental fail, you do realize when the Quran was written? Or probably not, you are interminably ignorant of basic facts.

If you would quit this pretense of pretending to know things that you don't, that would really be a step forward for you.

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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28-06-2016, 08:39 AM
RE: Christian with a question....
(28-06-2016 06:38 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  That's a start.

No, that's not a start. Your claim was that Mary didn't mind that "The messiah was crusified/ sacrificed himself so all could learn by his teachings and example."

Your quotes from the quran do not address that at all and even if they did they are hearsay accounts written hundreds of years later by people that did not accept that Jesus was the messiah. You fail on all counts, pops.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
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28-06-2016, 08:48 AM
RE: Christian with a question....
(27-06-2016 09:12 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Deesse23,

How do you propose I show you which verses explain that the OT was manipulated or misinterpreted without showing them to you?

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

I tried to have a conversation with you...not with your book. No

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28-06-2016, 08:58 AM
RE: Christian with a question....
(27-06-2016 09:26 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(27-06-2016 09:30 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  Would you agree with me that if you collect all availiable stories,"quotes", etc. from Jesus of the NT (well, there arent any, this has already be discussed ad nauseum, but lets that not stop us for the sake of continuing our discourse) that correct the misinterpretations from the OT or render them invalid, this what remains of the OT remains valid?

Just to be clear: Please, no more bible passages, no opinions of others, no wider discourses, links, non-sequiturs or tangents. I want your opinion.
1) yes?
or
2) no?
Yes.

But I don't know if that's what you want, because I consider the ot to be profitable without change, it just doesn't align with what is right in all points. But can still be learned from.

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

Thank you for your honest reply.

So you do think that

1 stoning unruly children
2 not wearing mixed fabric
3 not eating shellfish
4 marrying your rapist or rape victim (depends on your point of view)
5 not picking up sticks on sabbath
6 having another human being for property, that you can pass on to your children according to Exodus 21
7 and many other senseless and/or immoral rules and habits of the OT

is appropriate? Because i dont remember that the NT ever spoke against those things.

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28-06-2016, 09:34 AM
RE: Christian with a question....
(27-06-2016 09:03 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(27-06-2016 08:56 AM)SYZ Wrote:  Nope. You can't claim the veracity of your holy book by citing its own content LOL.....

..... It's all very well being able to quote the bible, but unless you can make any sense of it, it's truly pointless, and proves its ultimate worthlessness as both a historical document... or a scientific text.

So are you saying that the prophets weren't of GOD?
Sorry, but this is completely unintelligible gibberish. Your so-called "prophets" didn't exist as such; "a prophet is an individual who has claimed to have been contacted by the supernatural or the divine, and to speak for them, serving as an intermediary with humanity, delivering this newfound knowledge from the supernatural entity to other people." And you have zero empirical evidence for the existence of the most outrageous supernatural entities of them all—gods.

Quote:That's nonsensical.
Personal opinions do not equal evidence.

Quote:And no, none has ever been reported to have witnessed the utter countenance of GOD in fullness, as our perception and cognition is limited to human understanding.
More unintelligible nonsense. "Human understanding" is the only understanding available to us. Or are you seriously suggesting that some sort of hyper-human understanding is accessible to some people?

Quote:Oh yeah, I agree that it is of little historical or scientific use.
Then why do you insist on citing it a viable reference source in support of your arguments here? If it doesn't accurately record alleged historical happenings or history's players?

I'd give as much credibility to the Necronomicon's "Old Ones":

They worshipped, so they said, the Great Old Ones who lived ages before there were any men, and who came to the young world out of the sky. Those Old Ones were gone now, inside the earth and under the sea; but their dead bodies had told their secrets in dreams to the first men, who formed a cult which had never died.

Quote:It's use is of a different, more universally pervading knowledge and nature.
"Universally pervading"? What in fuck's name does this mean? How is it that you write so much but say so little?

I'm a creationist... I believe that man created God.
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28-06-2016, 09:52 AM
RE: Christian with a question....
(13-06-2016 12:29 PM)Phu Cat Wrote:  So I guess I'm in hot water right off the bat, but here it goes anyway: Could you assume, just for the sake of this question, that there is a god? And you're standing before him on judgement day. God says: "You can go back to earth and live a natural born God-fearing life or be sent directly to hell, which would you choose? Please don't play the "that's never going to happen because there is no god" card just for the sake of this discussion.

Thanks for answering, I'd think this would be a really tough decision.

Phu Cat

I'd go back to earth and live a hell of a life! Drooling
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28-06-2016, 09:54 AM
RE: Christian with a question....
(28-06-2016 07:21 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  
(28-06-2016 06:38 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  3:35. (Allâh listened) when a woman of (the family of) Amran said, ‘My Lord! I do hereby vow to You what is in my womb to be dedicated (to Your service); so do accept (it) of me. You alone are the All-Hearing, the All-Knowing.’ 3:36. But when she gave birth to it she said, ‘My Lord! I have given birth to a female.’ Allâh knew best what she had given birth to, and the male (she was thinking of) was not like this female (she had brought forth). ‘I have named her Mary and I do commend her to Your protection and (also) her offspring (to be saved) from satan, the accursed.’ 3:37. So her Lord accepted her (- Mary) with a gracious acceptance and made her grow into an excellent form and assigned her to the care of Zachariah. Every time Zachariah visited her in the chamber he found with her provisions. He said, ‘From where do you get all this, O Mary?’ She replied (with all conscientiousness), ‘It is from Allâh.’ Verily, Allâh provides whomsoever He will without measure. 3:42. (Recall the time) when the angels said, ‘O Mary! Surely Allâh has chosen you and has rid you of all impurities and has preferred you to the women of all (contemporary) people. 3:43. ‘O Mary! Be devout to your Lord and prostrate yourself and bow along with the congregation of the worshippers of God.’

3:45. (Recall the time) when the angels said, ‘O Mary! Allâh gives you good tidings through a (prophetic) word from Him (about the birth of a son) whose name is the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, (he shall be) worthy of regard in this world and in the Hereafter and one of the nearest ones (to Him),

19:30. (It came to pass that the son of Mary) said, ‘I am indeed a servant of Allâh, He has given me the Book, and made me a Prophet. 19:31. ‘And He has made me blessed wherever I may be, and He has enjoined upon me prayer and alms-giving so long as I live. 19:32. ‘And (He has made me) dutiful to my mother, and He has not made me arrogant, graceless. 19:33. ‘And peace was upon me the day I was born, and (peace will be upon me) the day I die, and the day I shall be raised up to life (again).’

That's a start. Gotta get I work. Will continue when free if you still insist.

Peace

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

Monumental fail, you do realize when the Quran was written? Or probably not, you are interminably ignorant of basic facts.

If you would quit this pretense of pretending to know things that you don't, that would really be a step forward for you.
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28-06-2016, 09:55 AM
RE: Christian with a question....
(28-06-2016 07:21 AM)TheInquisition Wrote:  
(28-06-2016 06:38 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  3:35. (Allâh listened) when a woman of (the family of) Amran said, ‘My Lord! I do hereby vow to You what is in my womb to be dedicated (to Your service); so do accept (it) of me. You alone are the All-Hearing, the All-Knowing.’ 3:36. But when she gave birth to it she said, ‘My Lord! I have given birth to a female.’ Allâh knew best what she had given birth to, and the male (she was thinking of) was not like this female (she had brought forth). ‘I have named her Mary and I do commend her to Your protection and (also) her offspring (to be saved) from satan, the accursed.’ 3:37. So her Lord accepted her (- Mary) with a gracious acceptance and made her grow into an excellent form and assigned her to the care of Zachariah. Every time Zachariah visited her in the chamber he found with her provisions. He said, ‘From where do you get all this, O Mary?’ She replied (with all conscientiousness), ‘It is from Allâh.’ Verily, Allâh provides whomsoever He will without measure. 3:42. (Recall the time) when the angels said, ‘O Mary! Surely Allâh has chosen you and has rid you of all impurities and has preferred you to the women of all (contemporary) people. 3:43. ‘O Mary! Be devout to your Lord and prostrate yourself and bow along with the congregation of the worshippers of God.’

3:45. (Recall the time) when the angels said, ‘O Mary! Allâh gives you good tidings through a (prophetic) word from Him (about the birth of a son) whose name is the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, (he shall be) worthy of regard in this world and in the Hereafter and one of the nearest ones (to Him),

19:30. (It came to pass that the son of Mary) said, ‘I am indeed a servant of Allâh, He has given me the Book, and made me a Prophet. 19:31. ‘And He has made me blessed wherever I may be, and He has enjoined upon me prayer and alms-giving so long as I live. 19:32. ‘And (He has made me) dutiful to my mother, and He has not made me arrogant, graceless. 19:33. ‘And peace was upon me the day I was born, and (peace will be upon me) the day I die, and the day I shall be raised up to life (again).’

That's a start. Gotta get I work. Will continue when free if you still insist.

Peace

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

Monumental fail, you do realize when the Quran was written? Or probably not, you are interminably ignorant of basic facts.

If you would quit this pretense of pretending to know things that you don't, that would really be a step forward for you.
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28-06-2016, 06:21 PM
RE: Christian with a question....
(28-06-2016 08:39 AM)unfogged Wrote:  
(28-06-2016 06:38 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  That's a start.

No, that's not a start. Your claim was that Mary didn't mind that "The messiah was crusified/ sacrificed himself so all could learn by his teachings and example."

Your quotes from the quran do not address that at all and even if they did they are hearsay accounts written hundreds of years later by people that did not accept that Jesus was the messiah. You fail on all counts, pops.
No, I said or was trying to say that Mary didn't mind being obedient and faithful to GOD regardless of circumstance.

I don't know what else to get that sort of info on her other than religious texts. And yes, I'm quite aware that the Qur'an is said to have been composed somewhere around the 700ad. She most likely mourned the death of her son.

You are wrong if you think Islam doesn't consider Jesus/ Isa as the messiah.
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