Christian with a question....
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14-06-2016, 12:35 PM
RE: Christian with a question....
(14-06-2016 11:49 AM)Phu Cat Wrote:  But consider this:I'm willing to bet a good many of you believe in evolution. I do too, to some extent.

Phu Cat

What the hell has evolution to do with the existence of god(s)?

Ceterum censeo, religionem delendam esse
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14-06-2016, 12:41 PM
RE: Christian with a question....
(14-06-2016 12:35 PM)Deesse23 Wrote:  
(14-06-2016 11:49 AM)Phu Cat Wrote:  But consider this:I'm willing to bet a good many of you believe in evolution. I do too, to some extent.

Phu Cat

What the hell has evolution to do with the existence of god(s)?

One does not "believe" in Evolution. It's a fact. There are mountains of evidence for it being the best explanation we have. There are no alternative explanations on the horizon. On the other hand, there is no reason to even begin to consider that ancient human meme called a gawd.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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14-06-2016, 12:43 PM (This post was last modified: 14-06-2016 12:51 PM by Glossophile.)
RE: Christian with a question....
Phu Cat, I think Numbers 31:15-18 is the passage you're looking for. For broader context, lest we be accused of quoting out of context, Numbers 31:1-24 might be worth reading. Even as I was typing this response up, it seems that Fatbaldhobbit has kindly provided the passage(s) directly in the thread.

Also, though others have already explained it, I'll reiterate the point on sexual reproduction for whatever it's worth.

Given that the most primal imperative of any organism is to reproduce and pass its genes to the next generation, it is wholly unsurprising that the central act of sexual reproduction would come to trigger pleasure in the brain. The better it feels, the more probable and frequent sex becomes, thereby maximizing the extent to which an individual's genes pass into a new generation.

In short, creatures for whom sex feels better have more sex, creatures that have more sex have more offspring, and creatures that have more offspring contribute more to determining the evolutionary trajectory of their species.

Even those relatively rare species in which sex is actually painful can probably be explained by the drive to ensure the maximal survival of one's own genes. If I remember correctly, a male lion has a spiked penis in order to scrape the sperm from other male lions away from the female's reproductive tract during mating. This furthers the odds that the cubs will carry his genes and not another lion's.

The only sacred truth in science is that there are no sacred truths. – Carl Sagan
Sōla vēritās sancta in philosophiā nātūrālī est absentia vēritātum sanctārum.
Ἡ μόνη ἱερᾱ̀ ἀληθείᾱ ἐν φυσικῇ φιλοσοφίᾳ ἐστίν ἡ ἱερῶν ἀληθειῶν σπάνις.
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14-06-2016, 01:19 PM
RE: Christian with a question....
(14-06-2016 11:49 AM)Phu Cat Wrote:  Mr. Bornagainpagan, I'm obvisously not as well studied as you as I've never read or heard of a story where God demands everyone in a certain city be killed except the comely young women who are then to be available for certain peoples pleasure. I can't imagine God doing such a thing, altho I can't quote every passage of the Bible. Could you possibly clarify that for me?

As far as my original question goes, it's interesting that as human that we can always find a way to justify whatever it is we want. You certainly have a right in this country to feel any way you wish and I hope that works out OK for you.

But consider this:I'm willing to bet a good many of you believe in evolution. I do too, to some extent. Lets take procreation as an example. Isn't that about the most pleasurable sensation you know of? If not, I'd sure like to know what is better? Did it get that way by evolution? Of all the other possibilities, from being not at all pleasurable, maybe even painful, to as fantastically pleasurable as it is, that it just turned out that way by dumb luck? You can't be serious! Of all the other possibilities, evolution just happened, for no good reason to cause the sensation of intercourse to be the single most pleasurable experience two people can share? This is the one thing where it's pretty easy to realize that a Creator that wanted to insure the population of the earth did so by making sure it was so pleasurable that we would not pass up any reasonable opportunity to engage in it.

Phu Cat

Ah yes, the "I don't understand it therefore magic" explanation.

All I can tell you is that ignorance is not something to be proud of.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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14-06-2016, 01:53 PM
RE: Christian with a question....
(14-06-2016 11:49 AM)Phu Cat Wrote:  This is the one thing where it's pretty easy to realize that a Creator that wanted to insure the population of the earth did so by making sure it was so pleasurable that we would not pass up any reasonable opportunity to engage in it.

Phu Cat

I got stupider just reading that. Facepalm For FUCK'S sake. Then your benevolent Creator made a bunch of rules about how if you stick it in the wrong hole you should be executed?

You know, we get a lot of flaky dudes passing through here... You're the latest evangelist in a long line. You thought you'd rock up and what? We'd suddenly realise how wrong we all were and fall on our knees and worship Jesus, after you'd posted your knock-em-dead-no-one-can-refute "but what if you're wrong" horse manure?

It's insulting is what it is. Not a single evangelical twit has ever said anything useful here or anywhere. Not even to the point of being able to demonstrate ability to read your own ridiculous book. Yet you all rock up here thinking you'll magically convince thinking adults that some idiot getting nailed to a bit of wood for saying seditious things 2000 years ago was some kind of world-shaking event.

Your God is DEAD and your faith is meaningless.

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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14-06-2016, 03:36 PM
RE: Christian with a question....
(14-06-2016 11:49 AM)Phu Cat Wrote:  Mr. Bornagainpagan, I'm obvisously not as well studied as you as I've never read or heard of a story where God demands everyone in a certain city be killed except the comely young women who are then to be available for certain peoples pleasure. I can't imagine God doing such a thing, altho I can't quote every passage of the Bible. Could you possibly clarify that for me?

As far as my original question goes, it's interesting that as human that we can always find a way to justify whatever it is we want. You certainly have a right in this country to feel any way you wish and I hope that works out OK for you.

But consider this:I'm willing to bet a good many of you believe in evolution. I do too, to some extent. Lets take procreation as an example. Isn't that about the most pleasurable sensation you know of? If not, I'd sure like to know what is better? Did it get that way by evolution? Of all the other possibilities, from being not at all pleasurable, maybe even painful, to as fantastically pleasurable as it is, that it just turned out that way by dumb luck? You can't be serious! Of all the other possibilities, evolution just happened, for no good reason to cause the sensation of intercourse to be the single most pleasurable experience two people can share? This is the one thing where it's pretty easy to realize that a Creator that wanted to insure the population of the earth did so by making sure it was so pleasurable that we would not pass up any reasonable opportunity to engage in it.

Phu Cat

If sex doesn't feel pleasurable then you don't do it. No babies and so your species goes extinct. It's a bit more nuanced than that but that's the quick-N-dirty evolutionary explanation.

Perhaps you'd have better luck sticking to a single topic. You seem to be all over the board here.

---
Flesh and blood of a dead star, slain in the apocalypse of supernova, resurrected by four billion years of continuous autocatalytic reaction and crowned with the emergent property of sentience in the dream that the universe might one day understand itself.
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14-06-2016, 03:56 PM
RE: Christian with a question....
(14-06-2016 01:53 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(14-06-2016 11:49 AM)Phu Cat Wrote:  This is the one thing where it's pretty easy to realize that a Creator that wanted to insure the population of the earth did so by making sure it was so pleasurable that we would not pass up any reasonable opportunity to engage in it.

Phu Cat

I got stupider just reading that. Facepalm For FUCK'S sake. Then your benevolent Creator made a bunch of rules about how if you stick it in the wrong hole you should be executed?

You know, we get a lot of flaky dudes passing through here... You're the latest evangelist in a long line. You thought you'd rock up and what? We'd suddenly realise how wrong we all were and fall on our knees and worship Jesus, after you'd posted your knock-em-dead-no-one-can-refute "but what if you're wrong" horse manure?

It's insulting is what it is. Not a single evangelical twit has ever said anything useful here or anywhere. Not even to the point of being able to demonstrate ability to read your own ridiculous book. Yet you all rock up here thinking you'll magically convince thinking adults that some idiot getting nailed to a bit of wood for saying seditious things 2000 years ago was some kind of world-shaking event.

Your God is DEAD and your faith is meaningless.

Don't hold back, Dog. Tell us how you really feel! Smile

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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14-06-2016, 04:12 PM
RE: Christian with a question....
(14-06-2016 01:53 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(14-06-2016 11:49 AM)Phu Cat Wrote:  This is the one thing where it's pretty easy to realize that a Creator that wanted to insure the population of the earth did so by making sure it was so pleasurable that we would not pass up any reasonable opportunity to engage in it.

Phu Cat

I got stupider just reading that. Facepalm For FUCK'S sake. Then your benevolent Creator made a bunch of rules about how if you stick it in the wrong hole you should be executed?

You know, we get a lot of flaky dudes passing through here... You're the latest evangelist in a long line. You thought you'd rock up and what? We'd suddenly realise how wrong we all were and fall on our knees and worship Jesus, after you'd posted your knock-em-dead-no-one-can-refute "but what if you're wrong" horse manure?

It's insulting is what it is. Not a single evangelical twit has ever said anything useful here or anywhere. Not even to the point of being able to demonstrate ability to read your own ridiculous book. Yet you all rock up here thinking you'll magically convince thinking adults that some idiot getting nailed to a bit of wood for saying seditious things 2000 years ago was some kind of world-shaking event.

Your God is DEAD and your faith is meaningless.

God is not dead, she is just taking a few centuries off in the Caribbean
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14-06-2016, 04:16 PM
RE: Christian with a question....
(14-06-2016 12:33 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(14-06-2016 12:09 PM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  I assume we don't have to clarify that further? Drinking Beverage

Oh but those were different times and the Midianites were evil. Dodgy

I so know that you were being sarcastic, but I swear for a moment you had me thinking back to sermons in my old Baptist church.

Need to think of a witty signature.
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14-06-2016, 04:18 PM
RE: Christian with a question....
(14-06-2016 03:56 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  Don't hold back, Dog. Tell us how you really feel! Smile

Hmpf Tongue Bloody half-baked apologists. Gets on ma tits ah tells ya!

We'll love you just the way you are
If you're perfect -- Alanis Morissette
(06-02-2014 03:47 PM)Momsurroundedbyboys Wrote:  And I'm giving myself a conclusion again from all the facepalming.
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