Christianity and the wealthy - what am I missing here?
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
22-05-2014, 09:33 PM
RE: Christianity and the wealthy - what am I missing here?
They point out that Solomon, David, Job etc were wealthy and completely ignore the contradictions. They say that asking the rich young ruler to sell all his goods was only to test his commitment. Holy shit the ability of the human mind to rationalize is depressing.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
22-05-2014, 09:40 PM
RE: Christianity and the wealthy - what am I missing here?
(22-05-2014 09:33 PM)freetoreason Wrote:  They point out that Solomon, David, Job etc were wealthy and completely ignore the contradictions. They say that asking the rich young ruler to sell all his goods was only to test his commitment. Holy shit the ability of the human mind to rationalize is depressing.

I am ok with that. Solomon and David where old testament guys, and the bible only portrays them as good and righteous, not perfect. On the subject of leadership God does, in the old testament anyway, reward people of faith with wealth. Which is fine, old testament is pretty consistent on that.

In walks Jesus the most important person to live ever. He says that a rich person will sooner get in heaven than a camel pass through the eye of a need, rallies against the wealthy priestly class and over turns the money lenders, ect. Yet people are cool with the pope and all his pope swag, and with fantastically rich monarchy, aristocracy, and business tycoons without so much as a hint of perceiving any contradiction. I mean sure there was the initial protestant and lutheran movements, and the ideas did pop up in history from time to time, but it never really caught on with the common people and in government in any big way. Christians by and large and historically like rich people. Completely baffling. Do you believe this shit or not?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
22-05-2014, 09:54 PM
RE: Christianity and the wealthy - what am I missing here?
(22-05-2014 09:40 PM)Michael_Tadlock Wrote:  
(22-05-2014 09:33 PM)freetoreason Wrote:  They point out that Solomon, David, Job etc were wealthy and completely ignore the contradictions. They say that asking the rich young ruler to sell all his goods was only to test his commitment. Holy shit the ability of the human mind to rationalize is depressing.

I am ok with that. Solomon and David where old testament guys, and the bible only portrays them as good and righteous, not perfect. On the subject of leadership God does, in the old testament anyway, reward people of faith with wealth. Which is fine, old testament is pretty consistent on that.

In walks Jesus the most important person to live ever. He says that a rich person will sooner get in heaven than a camel pass through the eye of a need, rallies against the wealthy priestly class and over turns the money lenders, ect. Yet people are cool with the pope and all his pope swag, and with fantastically rich monarchy, aristocracy, and business tycoons without so much as a hint of perceiving any contradiction. I mean sure there was the initial protestant and lutheran movements, and the ideas did pop up in history from time to time, but it never really caught on with the common people and in government in any big way. Christians by and large and historically like rich people. Completely baffling. Do you believe this shit or not?

I thought it was the reverse - that a camel could pass through the eye of a needle sooner than a rich person would get into heaven.

<scratching my head smilie>

ETA: I don't believe a word of it.

We have enough youth. How about looking for the Fountain of Smart?
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Thinkerbelle's post
22-05-2014, 11:34 PM
RE: Christianity and the wealthy - what am I missing here?
(22-05-2014 09:40 PM)Michael_Tadlock Wrote:  I am ok with that. Solomon and David where old testament guys, and the bible only portrays them as good and righteous, not perfect.

I'm not so sure that either of these guys were "good and righteous".

They're both murderers and Soloman, at least, is a serial killer. And that whole 700 wives and 300 concubines and chasing after false gods and such - Soloman isn't so good or righteous by today's Christian standards (in which polygamy and idolatry and apostasy are clearly and extremely sinful).

"Whores perform the same function as priests, but far more thoroughly." - Robert A. Heinlein
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Aseptic Skeptic's post
22-05-2014, 11:55 PM
RE: Christianity and the wealthy - what am I missing here?
(22-05-2014 04:40 PM)Chase Wrote:  Am I reading the Bible wrong? I don't understand it.

... I don't know that there's any way to read it RIGHT.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
23-05-2014, 12:37 AM
RE: Christianity and the wealthy - what am I missing here?
(22-05-2014 04:42 PM)Revenant77x Wrote:  [Image: cherry-7911681.jpg]

They ignore the parts they don't like. When confronted with this they lie and say the bible doesn't say that.

They also say that the bible is not meant to be taken literally and than take the parts they DO like literally as they double pick.

I call it "double picking". A Logically fallacy I will coin in sometime and what it means is that you not only cherry pick the parts you DO like, but you do so by dismissing its entirety and cherry pick which parts you want to take literal and which parts you do not.

So for example: the bible is a metaphor, you are not suppose to take it literally. when jesus said that stuff about beating your slave within an inch of his life and as long as he does not die for another 2 days its ok..That is a hidden message. He did not mean that literally. This X part of the bible is not to be taken literally. BUT all these good things that are said here and here and thou shalt not kill and this quote over here that says gay people need to be stoned. THAT part is to be taken literally.

Double Picking. Picking the good parts that you agree with from a statement or a theory or religion text or philosophy when you already dismissed its entirety.


My Youtube channel if anyone is interested.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCEkRdbq...rLEz-0jEHQ
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
23-05-2014, 10:24 AM
RE: Christianity and the wealthy - what am I missing here?
The Bible doesn't say that wealth is wrong; it says that loving it or trusting it is wrong.

Quote:For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils. It is through this craving that some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many pangs.
(1 Timothy 6:10 ESV)

It is love of money, not money itself, that is a root of evil. People who are rich will leave all their money behind when they die but they can send it ahead by using it to do good while still here on earth.

Quote:As for the rich in this present age, charge them not to be haughty, nor to set their hopes on the uncertainty of riches, but on God, who richly provides us with everything to enjoy. They are to do good, to be rich in good works, to be generous and ready to share, thus storing up treasure for themselves as a good foundation for the future, so that they may take hold of that which is truly life.
(1 Timothy 6:17-19 ESV)

The information in ancient libraries came from real minds of real people. The far more complex information in cells came from the far more intelligent mind of God.
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
23-05-2014, 11:11 AM
RE: Christianity and the wealthy - what am I missing here?
(23-05-2014 10:24 AM)theophilus Wrote:  The Bible doesn't say that wealth is wrong; it says that loving it or trusting it is wrong.

Quote:For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils. It is through this craving that some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many pangs.
(1 Timothy 6:10 ESV)

It is love of money, not money itself, that is a root of evil. People who are rich will leave all their money behind when they die but they can send it ahead by using it to do good while still here on earth.

Quote:As for the rich in this present age, charge them not to be haughty, nor to set their hopes on the uncertainty of riches, but on God, who richly provides us with everything to enjoy. They are to do good, to be rich in good works, to be generous and ready to share, thus storing up treasure for themselves as a good foundation for the future, so that they may take hold of that which is truly life.
(1 Timothy 6:17-19 ESV)

Matthew 19:21-22: “Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.”
Luke 6:34-36: “And if ye lend to them of whom ye hope to receive, what thank have ye? for sinners also lend to sinners, to receive as much again. But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.”
Luke 12:19-21: “And I will say to my soul, Soul, thou hast much goods laid up for many years; take thine ease, eat, drink, and be merry. But God said unto him, Thou fool, this night thy soul shall be required of thee: then whose shall those things be, which thou hast provided? So is he that layeth up treasure for himself, and is not rich toward God.”
Go to now, ye rich men, weep and howl for your miseries that shall come upon you. Your riches are corrupted, and your garments are motheaten. Your gold and silver is cankered; and the rust of them shall be a witness against you, and shall eat your flesh as it were fire. Ye have heaped treasure together for the last days” James 5:1-3

There are plenty of contradictions in the bible. But in the Gospels it is emphatically clear. If you have a lot of stuff, you are obligated to give it to the poor. Retaining your possessions while others go without is a sin. I would think if jesus said it, it trumps all other passages.

It only irritates me because of how inconsistent the christain message is. Gays? Bible says in one place in the old testament it is bad, fuck the gays. Contraception? The bible killed a man in genesis for spilling his seed on the ground, that is all the proof I need that contraception is bad. Eternal damnation? The bible eludes to fire in a few places, this means hell is a place of torture and fire, and if you don't believe what I believe you go their for eternity.

The poor? I really aught to do something I guess. God helps those who help themselves, get a job dead beat.

And while we are on the subject, what ever happened to not eating animals with cloven hooves, wearing garments woven with two types of fabric, and honoring passover?

Ofc I don't believe any of it. Just wish christians would either follow their own holy book, or stop shoving their favorite passages down my throat to the exclusion of others. Dodgy
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Michael_Tadlock's post
23-05-2014, 12:19 PM
RE: Christianity and the wealthy - what am I missing here?
(22-05-2014 09:54 PM)Thinkerbelle Wrote:  I thought it was the reverse - that a camel could pass through the eye of a needle sooner than a rich person would get into heaven.
You're correct.

@DonaldTrump, Patriotism is not honoring your flag no matter what your country/leader does. It's doing whatever it takes to make your country the best it can be as long as its not violent.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
23-05-2014, 01:27 PM
RE: Christianity and the wealthy - what am I missing here?
Ok, putting on fundy hat for a moment.

There is a general understanding within Christianity regarding possession of money vs. obsession with money. Money itself is often seen as benign in and of itself, but the one who possesses it is often believed to develop an obsession for it, or a sense of pride, conceit, elitism, etc. while they possess it. Also, those who persue money are similarly said to have this "love of money." Money CAN be a blessing, or it can be a "stumbling block." It can also be an idol (a very common pronouncement is that "he made money his god or his idol").

Those in the evangelical circles who want the money will of course pounce on the "money is a blessing" thinking. Those who are jealous of them will use the "money is their idol" rebuttal.

Basically, it's supposed to be about a person's attitude regarding money, and not about the money itself.

The reason it is said that "it's easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to get to Heaven" is because it's often believed that it's very very hard to resist the ungodly mindsets that come with affluence while one is rich. It's believed that one's attitude towards their money will generally determine how it is used. Sooooo, if one's attitude towards it is that it needs to be given to the poor, then the rich person who holds this attitude will, presumably, do just that. If that rich person fails to do so, it can mean that they perhaps do not really hold this position after all, or that their love of money has taken root.

I'm probably not being very clear. Sorry bout that.

Okay, hat off.

A person very dear to me was badly hurt through a misunderstanding and miscommunication. For this, I am sorry, and he knows it. That said, any blaming me for malicious intent is for the birds. I will not wear some scarlet letter, I will not be anybody's whipping girl, and I will not lurk in silence.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 4 users Like Charis's post
Post Reply
Forum Jump: