Christianity for busy thinking people
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13-07-2016, 02:52 PM (This post was last modified: 13-07-2016 03:06 PM by RocketSurgeon76.)
RE: Christianity for busy thinking people
(13-07-2016 06:31 AM)pasadi97 Wrote:  Your proof is on youtube . Search for "NDE atheism" and listen.

If your heart is hardened you will not accept this proof. So the medicine is prayer:

Dear God please help me understand if atheism leads to Hell.Please save me. Amen.

If God does not exist you lost 10 sec. If God exists he will show you why atheism leads to hell in a way that a hardened hearth will accept.

We are skeptics who rely on the Scientific Method of demonstrating facts (or not). Science has examined the question of NDEs and found it to be bogus, to be a product of the way human brains work, and not based on an external phenomenon. That is why people keep explaining to you that NDEs do not show evidence of a universal God, but a god/afterlife concept that fits the cultural expectations of that individual-- that goes for atheists who grew up in a religious culture, and therefore have certain ideas in their heads when the brain starts to release the chemicals associated with NDEs. In other words, if your Yahweh is really God, then we would expect people in places where they have never heard of him to be reporting, "Hey guys! I came back from the dead and while I was there I spoke to some guy named 'Jesus', whom I'd never heard of, before!"

But it just doesn't happen. And our advances in neuroscience tell us why NDEs happen in the first place. You really should try to understand the phenomenon better before you just leap to the conclusions you have apparently reached.

Calling us "heart-hardened" is just your way of deflecting the obvious conclusion that we have considered your ideas and rejected them for sound reasons, while your own reasoning is not remotely as sound, but based on a priori assumptions derived from your particular cultural upbringing (in this case, Christianity).

If you have to cite to anecdotes on YouTube to make your case, you're no better than 9-11 conspiracy theorists or alien abduction claimants... and you should expect us to take you exactly as seriously as that.

In other words, if that's the best you have in defense of your deity, I feel sorry for you. Perhaps instead of watching so much YouTube, you should spend some time reading a book (other than your scripture)... I'd recommend The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark by Carl Sagan.

Edit to Add: Oh, and no, even if I knew your God as described in the Bible was real, for a fact, I would still not worship him. A being who would deliberately send humans to a literal Hell of his own creation for exercising their minds and yet coming to the (wrong) conclusion is a psychopath, and not worthy of worship. A human who believes the human priests/prophets who claim to speak for God, and yet cannot see that he is being shackled into a subservient social order by those humans is a slave... one who ignores the advances in human knowledge since those ignorant priests/prophets made statements that are at odds with what we observe in the natural world via empirical evidence, tested for confirmation, and prefers to stick to the level of knowledge of Bronze/Iron-Age sheep herder tribes, is willfully ignorant. Any God worthy of worship would prefer the atheists here over those like you who fall for such ignorance, emotional blackmail, and obvious mind-control techniques. And no, I'm not insulting you. I am an ex-Christian and I used to sound just like you do... now I look at you the way a recovering alcoholic looks at another person who is attempting to justify their daily inebriation: with pity and sadness.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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13-07-2016, 03:09 PM
RE: Christianity for busy thinking people
In case KingsChosen or ShaiHulud reads this, I do want to make it clear that I do not view you guys with any form of pity or contempt... only those who think that God is the way this guy describes it, and who revels in willful ignorance.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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13-07-2016, 03:26 PM
RE: Christianity for busy thinking people
(13-07-2016 08:05 AM)Full Circle Wrote:  
(13-07-2016 07:03 AM)pasadi97 Wrote:  This is for you for the sake of your afterlife.

GirlyMan Wrote:
Plausible is generally accepted to mean a coherent explanation, as judged by a reasonable individual, of how the mind could possibly exist without the body and how they could possibly interact. Arguments for dualism are not only untenable, they are generally incoherent.

(13-07-2016 07:03 AM)pasadi97 Wrote:  If your heart is hardened you will not accept this proof. So the medicine is prayer:

Dear God please help me understand if atheism leads to Hell.Please save me. Amen.

I have a hypothesis on why the world is in such turmoil: prayer. My thinking is as follows:

God is all knowing and omnipotent and perfect. He was here before the universe and stars and he conceived His perfect Grand Design. But now we humans are questioning His un-erring judgment by asking Him through prayer to change things as He made them and wants them to be.

We ask for this or that, for help, for others to change their ways, for us to win a war, for inner peace, for food on our plates or for a cure to some disease. No matter how benevolent we may think of what we are asking for, what we are really saying is “Hey God, I think you fucked up, can’t you see I have cancer and am dying?”

Meanwhile God knew from time immemorial you were going to have cancer, in fact that is what He wanted all the time. But the supplicant believes he knows better than God and so he pisses Him off by asking to be cured. Before the beginning of time He knew you were going to piss Him off so not only do you have cancer but after you die you’re going to Hell for insinuating you knew better by asking Him to change His perfect Grand Design.

If you believe in the perfect, all-knowing, omnipotent being that created all and everything is exactly as He wants it to be then prayer isn’t necessary because all has been preordained and things will be the way He planned them to be with or without your input. I don’t think a god would care one iota what any of us think about His perfect plan.

So my advice to all those that believe in gods and pray is to suck it up, whatever is happening to you is exactly what God wanted so quit wasting your time and pissing Him off, He can be pretty fucking vindictive, just read the OT.

My other hypothesis is that is that there is no God. So stop your mind-masturbation and take personal responsibility for your life.


(13-07-2016 07:03 AM)‘pasadi97 Wrote:  If God does not exist you lost 10 sec. If God exists he will show you why atheism leads to hell in a way that a hardened hearth will accept.

I just told you, I don’t have 10 seconds to waste on your fantasy.



I envision God going to the psychiatrist...

Yahweh: "Doc, I'm not myself today, I haven't meddled in the lives of humans in two days"
Doc: (tongue in cheek) ”Why don’t you fling some tornados at Oklahoma or something?”
Yahweh: "Great fucking idea Doc! The survivors will be singing my praises in no time!"
Doc: (thinking to himself, what an asshole).
That was a very well thought out and written post. Really.

Ultimately being submissive to the Will of GOD, asking for direction, and offering praise and thanks, and proper actions goes a long way.

Everything is ordained. But given the omnipotence and omniscience of GOD coupled with GOD's Will which goes hand in hand with IT's creation. Literally anything could be possible, including altering literally anything in order to assist or guide IT's creation for GOD's will.

It's strange to me how some atheists act as if we would be miniscule or without worth in an omniscient omnipotent GOD's eye, even though all throughout observable existence we are the most advanced life to be seen.

Does the fact that we actually do have dominion over all we observe mean nothing or is it somehow overlooked? I mean I know there is a good possibility that there could be advanced life elsewhere, but we haven't come across that yet, so we shouldn't really consider it, right?

I really did enjoy your post for multiple reasons. I could only hope to be able to convey my points as you have done, maybe, eventually.

Humbly,

Peace

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.
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13-07-2016, 03:31 PM
RE: Christianity for busy thinking people
(13-07-2016 08:30 AM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  
(13-07-2016 05:17 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  I know, just means privacy though, not literally in the closet.

I don't accept that. The words in the book say "closet".

On what justification do you change the words? Who gave you the authority?

If you change those words, what other words can we change?

Maybe we could change "not" to "sometimes"...

Thou shalt sometimes steal...
I'm not changing the words friend, I'm only interpreting in a non literal way.

That goes for pretty much all of it. It's parables and entendre, not to be merely understood literally. That's sorta the problem the Jew had in my opinion.

Authority? It isn't an authority thing so much as it is just knowing. Where did the knowledge come from? Not me. It just happens to go right along with everything else I have ever known on my own.

I have no authority and want none...ever. I would like to be heard though.

Peace

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13-07-2016, 03:33 PM
RE: Christianity for busy thinking people
(13-07-2016 11:22 AM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  
(13-07-2016 10:14 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  You and I know that I can only provide evidence from the bhagavad gita and bible.

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

Using holy books as evidence to prove the accuracy of the same holy books?

Really? Than any holy book from any religion verifies the truth of that religion.

Or worse, under that justification, any movie that says "Based on a true story" can be considered an accurate representation.
No, actually I meant to show how one is evidence for the other.

Not technically proof though.

Peace

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13-07-2016, 03:40 PM
RE: Christianity for busy thinking people
(13-07-2016 03:26 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Everything is ordained.

Prove it.

Quote:... even though all throughout observable existence we are the most advanced life to be seen.

That depends on the criteria used; unless there is an objective criteria to base it on that statement is essentially meaningless.

Quote:Does the fact that we actually do have dominion over all we observe mean nothing or is it somehow overlooked?

You've raised this canard before. We have, at best, limited dominion over a portion of the surface of one planet.

Quote:Humbly,

Bullshit. Nothing about you is humble in any way. Claiming humility immediately after stating that we are the most advanced life and that we have dominion over everything is just laughable.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
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13-07-2016, 03:43 PM
RE: Christianity for busy thinking people
(13-07-2016 11:23 AM)Peebothuhul Wrote:  At work.

Wait.... why does X-ianity get to 'Back date' their religion but they don't think the others can?

Consider

Reminds me of listening to Muslim appologist say how much better 'Their' prophet was over that other guy who was also 'Just' a prophet and totally not a god. Because a god can't incarnate because doing something like that would just be silly and not reflect the reality of what god can and can not do....

Consider
Yeah that is a big issue for me personally. I see a big problem with claiming a person to be the fullness of GOD, for multiple reasons(namely; utter misdirection and or/ deceit), but conversely I cannot claim logically claim that an omniscient, omnipotent, benevolent GOD couldn't couldn't or wouldn't manifest in the form of a man. It's not like dyeing would have affected GOD, yet it could and did benefit man or life, regardless of if Jesus as a man was GOD or Christ. I tend to keep with scripture on this topic and go with what I do know, which is that in that change/revelation/ happening that took place...there was know proclamation of it being from Jesus or an apostle, or a prophet, or anything like that. It was and is known to me that it was simply GOD. Also it is irrelevant as all past this existence will only consist of GOD upon the end, or beginning...whichever.

Sorry if unintelligible.

Peace

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13-07-2016, 03:46 PM
RE: Christianity for busy thinking people
double post deleted...

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13-07-2016, 03:47 PM
RE: Christianity for busy thinking people
(13-07-2016 03:31 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  I'm not changing the words friend, I'm only interpreting in a non literal way.

Facepalm

Quote:That goes for pretty much all of it. It's parables and entendre, not to be merely understood literally. That's sorta the problem the Jew had in my opinion.

FacepalmFacepalm

Quote:Authority? It isn't an authority thing so much as it is just knowing. Where did the knowledge come from? Not me. It just happens to go right along with everything else I have ever known on my own.

Maybe, just maybe, the reason the "knowledge" you received lines up with what you know on your own is because you are making it all up in your own head. You are delusional pops, and possibly dangerously so given your history. You need help.

Quote:I have no authority and want none...ever. I would like to be heard though.

You should be heard by a mental health professional.

(13-07-2016 03:33 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(13-07-2016 11:22 AM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  Using holy books as evidence to prove the accuracy of the same holy books?

Really? Than any holy book from any religion verifies the truth of that religion.

Or worse, under that justification, any movie that says "Based on a true story" can be considered an accurate representation.
No, actually I meant to show how one is evidence for the other.

Facepalm

Kind of like how Star Wars and Star Trek are both evidence of human space travel.

Quote:Not technically proof though.

No shit Sherlock

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13-07-2016, 03:48 PM
RE: Christianity for busy thinking people
(13-07-2016 12:38 PM)Commonsensei Wrote:  
(13-07-2016 07:03 AM)pasadi97 Wrote:  This is for you for the sake of your afterlife.

If your heart is hardened you will not accept this proof. So the medicine is prayer:

Dear God please help me understand if atheism leads to Hell.Please save me. Amen.

If God does not exist you lost 10 sec. If God exists he will show you why atheism leads to hell in a way that a hardened hearth will accept.

I've heard this a lot.

Almost like one is unaware that many people didn't start in Atheism. For example myself. I gave 29 years of my life to prayer, for some sort of sign or clarification. With no response. So i've wasted enough of my presouise time I have left on better things.

A second point I would like to bring up is.

Why would I want to give anything or anyone, that would threaten me with a eternity of "torture" for asking simple questions, any of my time?

IF God existed it would be a hypocritical, blood thirsty monster.

Beside it's been already demonstrated numerous times over that prayer has the sames odds as chance.

Prayer
"I hope I get this Job."

Odds are 50/50 You ether will or you wont.

You get the job: "Prayers answered!"
You don't get the job: "He must have bigger plans for me" Or a complete disregard for the prayer made.

An even big stretch

You don't get the job, but someone gives you a car.

"OH BEHOLD GOD GRACE I DIDN'T GET THE JOB I WANTED, BUT I GOT A CAR INSTEAD!"

This couldn't be associated to the original prayer because the request was denied.

How this for a prayer I'll even put in Black and White so your god can read it clearly.

If your God is real may he strike me dead! Right now! Send my soul to eternal hell fire! Not 40 years from now, not tomorrow afternoon. Right after I post this sentence. Prove to everyone here that you exist threw my sacrifice!
Uhm. I've said that before.

Really

But for real for real; hell is hugely misunderstood to be eternal torment.

It is lack of existence/ destruction.

You have to really do some research on the origins of the word and its misuse and or misinterpretation.

Peace

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