Christianity for busy thinking people
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13-07-2016, 04:17 PM
RE: Christianity for busy thinking people
(13-07-2016 04:06 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(13-07-2016 04:02 PM)unfogged Wrote:  LMAO

Observation is not criteria. That may qualify as the most idiotic thing you've said and that's saying something.

You said we are the most advanced life form. What criteria did you use to determine that? To say one thing is more advanced than another you have to define the category you are talking about.
Life in general. What do you want me to specify? Stop playing stupid. Have you observed other life more advanced than you that humans as a whole do not have dominion over?

Have you observed freakin space aliens and just haven't talked about it?

Comon man. Don't be ridiculous or act retarded; it makes your claims about me less credible.

Think

Peace

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

You telling others to stop playing stupid, how about you stop being stuipd...this is why you are ridiculed, you show so little thoughts of actual critical thought to show the mental focus to see a concept beyond the 1st stage of it.

You're just falsely arguing some attribution to "advanced" with no criteria for what it stands for. Saying "Advanced" and being settled with that as a point of reality doesn't mean diddle squat Advanced in what specific concepts, ways.

Is there an OBJECTIVE hierarchy of advanced stages of life? Not anywhere is that demonstrated, care to demonstrate or explain that one?

Do humans have advanced nervous systems where all throughout their body they can feel like they have the capability of a brain like mentality in their limbs? Do they have abilities to be advanced in self preservation to regenerate lost limbs or organs? Do they have advanced sights and minds to explore in scopes beyond ultraviolet light with their organs?

But what you think well humans have "consciousness" so they equal most advanced... well you have to establish consciousnesses is an "advanced" element. What makes one special detail of biological element more or not as much "advanced" as another. Generally a person engaging in critical thought with the mental capabilities to see an argument through would be able to create a criteria of basis for what is advanced. And lots of people do on both sides say consciousness is advanced or say it isn't anything "advanced" more than the other advantages a octopus or other living earth species have as a specialization to harvest their environment to living advantages.

If you think there's an objective layer to life, you have to be able to objectively demonstrate it. Observing it isn't enough of a claim to be anything but a unsubstantiated belief. Observation is just step 1 in proposing a concept.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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13-07-2016, 04:23 PM
RE: Christianity for busy thinking people
(13-07-2016 03:48 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(13-07-2016 12:38 PM)Commonsensei Wrote:  I've heard this a lot.

Almost like one is unaware that many people didn't start in Atheism. For example myself. I gave 29 years of my life to prayer, for some sort of sign or clarification. With no response. So i've wasted enough of my presouise time I have left on better things.

A second point I would like to bring up is.

Why would I want to give anything or anyone, that would threaten me with a eternity of "torture" for asking simple questions, any of my time?

IF God existed it would be a hypocritical, blood thirsty monster.

Beside it's been already demonstrated numerous times over that prayer has the sames odds as chance.

Prayer
"I hope I get this Job."

Odds are 50/50 You ether will or you wont.

You get the job: "Prayers answered!"
You don't get the job: "He must have bigger plans for me" Or a complete disregard for the prayer made.

An even big stretch

You don't get the job, but someone gives you a car.

"OH BEHOLD GOD GRACE I DIDN'T GET THE JOB I WANTED, BUT I GOT A CAR INSTEAD!"

This couldn't be associated to the original prayer because the request was denied.

How this for a prayer I'll even put in Black and White so your god can read it clearly.

If your God is real may he strike me dead! Right now! Send my soul to eternal hell fire! Not 40 years from now, not tomorrow afternoon. Right after I post this sentence. Prove to everyone here that you exist threw my sacrifice!
Uhm. I've said that before.

Really

But for real for real; hell is hugely misunderstood to be eternal torment.

It is lack of existence/ destruction.

You have to really do some research on the origins of the word and its misuse and or misinterpretation.

Peace

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

Well pops two things

1) You should tell that to pasadi97 as he is the one stating Hell is our destiation for not accepting God.
2) The statement wasn't direct at you. (Thou you comment is accepted.) If it was I would have adjusted the statement to try to fit into your weebly wobbly woo.

I've done a fair amount of research on the subject of hell. Not only from my younger years in the catholic church but my years in college learing about he history of Dante's Inferno and current years as an Atheist.

But my statement still stands. No effective action was placed upon me. No zap into eternal non exsitance.

Don't Live each day like it's your last. Live each day like you have 541 days after that one where every choice you make will have lasting implications to you and the world around you. ~ Tim Minchin
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13-07-2016, 04:25 PM
RE: Christianity for busy thinking people
OMFG! Are you guys really expecting reasonable, rational conversation with pops? Facepalm You must be the most optimistic people in the world.

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13-07-2016, 04:31 PM
RE: Christianity for busy thinking people
(13-07-2016 03:57 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  
(13-07-2016 03:48 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  But for real for real; hell is hugely misunderstood to be eternal torment.

It is lack of existence/ destruction.

So, basically, what we atheists already think is going to happen to us? (And every other animal on the planet.)

Neato. Thumbsup
I'm not too sure about other life.

I've heard some say animals don't have a soul, but I think they do.

As far as atheists are concerned; it depends on their actions and if they where simply ignorant because GOD never showed them otherwise, or if they just ignored something that was shown.

I guess if you don't believe that Jesus was the Christ then you may have a problem. So maybe those who actually believe that he never even existed may have trouble. Then again, it still can go back to the whole ignorance thing.

Not calling anyone ignorant or damned for all eternity.

Peace

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13-07-2016, 04:33 PM
RE: Christianity for busy thinking people
(13-07-2016 04:08 PM)unfogged Wrote:  
(13-07-2016 04:03 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Well, I mean advanced life and dominion.

You don't seem to understand that "advanced" doesn't mean anything when unqualified. If you mean technologically then the question becomes why that should be considered important. We are certainly more technologically advanced than any other species we know of (although that is still arguing from ignorance) but you seem to be implying that that makes us somehow better or more important or more valuable in some objective way. There goes that claim to being humble again....
Don't conflate what I say.

I didn't say we were better, just that we have power over other life unparalleled throughout observable existence.



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13-07-2016, 04:40 PM
RE: Christianity for busy thinking people
(13-07-2016 04:16 PM)unfogged Wrote:  
(13-07-2016 04:06 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Life in general. What do you want me to specify?

I want you to define the criteria you are using to judge which species are more advanced than others or admit that you don't have a clue what you are talking about.

Quote: Stop playing stupid.

I would never attempt to beat you at that game. I know when I'm outclassed.

Quote:Have you observed other life more advanced than you that humans as a whole do not have dominion over?

Again, "advanced" is not defined. There is certainly a lot of microbial life that we do not have dominion over so if you are judging based on fecundity and virulence then they are far more advanced than we are.

Quote:Have you observed freakin space aliens and just haven't talked about it?

Comon man. Don't be ridiculous or act retarded; it makes your claims about me less credible.

I'm just not restricted to your myopic view.
Microbial life...really.

Yes viruses are better viruses than humans... By a little maybe.

I guess I was basing the criteria off of potential, dominion, the use of tools and science, the ability to traverse different habitats including outside of our atmosphere.

I mean... Ants are more organized but still haven't overwhelmed us. We seem to be on the top of the food chain. We can cultivate, communicate somewhat, build shit, actually have some sort of record of history....I just meant in general.

I tell ya what; since you want specifics why don't you be specific? You already mentioned microbes.



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13-07-2016, 05:17 PM
RE: Christianity for busy thinking people
(13-07-2016 03:26 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  That was a very well thought out and written post. Really.

Thanks, we atheists sometimes show promise. Dodgy

(13-07-2016 03:26 PM)‘popsthebuilder Wrote:  Ultimately being submissive to the Will of GOD, asking for direction, and offering praise and thanks, and proper actions goes a long way.

Again, if an all-knowing Creator in His Grand Plan designed that I am supposed to be an atheist who the fuck am I to argue?

(13-07-2016 03:26 PM)‘popsthebuilder’ Wrote:  Everything is ordained.

There you go. We are all atheists because God wants it that way. Why are you screwing around with His plan? He’s gonna be pissed off at you if you keep this up. Just trying to help you out.

(13-07-2016 03:26 PM)‘popsthebuilder Wrote:  But given the omnipotence and omniscience of GOD coupled with GOD’s Will which goes hand in hand with IT’s creation. Literally anything could be possible, including altering literally anything in order to assist or guide IT’s creation for GOD’s will.

To quote natachan: “I understand all the words he says, but not how they can be combined in that order."

‘popsthebuilder’ pid=‘1030863’ dateline=‘1468445169’ Wrote:It’sDoes the fact that we actually do have dominion over all we observe mean nothing or is it somehow overlooked? I mean I know there is a good possibility that there could be advanced life elsewhere, but we haven't come across that yet, so we shouldn't really consider it, right? strange to me how some atheists act as if we would be miniscule or without worth in an omniscient omnipotent GOD's eye, even though all throughout observable existence we are the most advanced life to be seen.

"How insignificant we are, with our pigmy little world!-- an atom glinting with uncounted myriads of other atom worlds in a broad shaft of light streaming from God's countenance--and yet prating complacently of our speck as the Great World, and regarding the other specks as pretty trifles made to steer our schooners by and inspire the reveries of "puppy" lovers. Did Christ live 33 years in each of the millions and millions of worlds that hold their majestic courses above our heads? Or was our small globe the favored one of all? Does one apple in a vast orchard think as much of itself as we do? or one leaf in the forest--or one grain of sand upon the sea shore? Do the pismires argue upon vexed questions of pismire theology--and do they climb a molehill and look abroad over the grand universe of an acre of ground and say "Great is God, who created all things for Us?"
- Samuel Clemens aka Mark Twain in a letter to Olivia Landon (Clemens) 8 January 1870

‘popsthebuilder’ pid=‘1030863’ dateline=‘1468445169’ Wrote:I really did enjoy your post for multiple reasons.

Happy to entertain.

‘popsthebuilder’ pid=‘1030863’ dateline=‘1468445169’ Wrote:I could only hope to be able to convey my points as you have done, maybe, eventually.

Perhaps if you championed logical and provable points it would be easier for you?

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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13-07-2016, 05:17 PM
RE: Christianity for busy thinking people
(13-07-2016 04:31 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(13-07-2016 03:57 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  So, basically, what we atheists already think is going to happen to us? (And every other animal on the planet.)

Neato. Thumbsup
I'm not too sure about other life.

I've heard some say animals don't have a soul, but I think they do.

I'm going to have to ask for qualification on that; what is a soul, precisely what does it do, and how does one establish its functions?

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
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13-07-2016, 05:24 PM
RE: Christianity for busy thinking people
(13-07-2016 05:17 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  
(13-07-2016 04:31 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  I'm not too sure about other life.

I've heard some say animals don't have a soul, but I think they do.

I'm going to have to ask for qualification on that; what is a soul, precisely what does it do, and how does one establish its functions?

Come on FT, everyone know the furry cute ones have souls, except for cats...cats are the demon’s spawn.

“I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s.”~Mark Twain
“Ocean: A body of water occupying about two-thirds of a world made for man - who has no gills.”~ Ambrose Bierce
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13-07-2016, 05:27 PM
RE: Christianity for busy thinking people
(13-07-2016 05:17 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  
(13-07-2016 03:26 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  That was a very well thought out and written post. Really.

Thanks, we atheists sometimes show promise. Dodgy

(13-07-2016 03:26 PM)‘popsthebuilder Wrote:  Ultimately being submissive to the Will of GOD, asking for direction, and offering praise and thanks, and proper actions goes a long way.

Again, if an all-knowing Creator in His Grand Plan designed that I am supposed to be an atheist who the fuck am I to argue?

(13-07-2016 03:26 PM)‘popsthebuilder’ Wrote:  Everything is ordained.

There you go. We are all atheists because God wants it that way. Why are you screwing around with His plan? He’s gonna be pissed off at you if you keep this up. Just trying to help you out.

(13-07-2016 03:26 PM)‘popsthebuilder Wrote:  But given the omnipotence and omniscience of GOD coupled with GOD’s Will which goes hand in hand with IT’s creation. Literally anything could be possible, including altering literally anything in order to assist or guide IT’s creation for GOD’s will.

To quote natachan: “I understand all the words he says, but not how they can be combined in that order."

‘popsthebuilder’ pid=‘1030863’ dateline=‘1468445169’ Wrote:It’sDoes the fact that we actually do have dominion over all we observe mean nothing or is it somehow overlooked? I mean I know there is a good possibility that there could be advanced life elsewhere, but we haven't come across that yet, so we shouldn't really consider it, right? strange to me how some atheists act as if we would be miniscule or without worth in an omniscient omnipotent GOD's eye, even though all throughout observable existence we are the most advanced life to be seen.

"How insignificant we are, with our pigmy little world!-- an atom glinting with uncounted myriads of other atom worlds in a broad shaft of light streaming from God's countenance--and yet prating complacently of our speck as the Great World, and regarding the other specks as pretty trifles made to steer our schooners by and inspire the reveries of "puppy" lovers. Did Christ live 33 years in each of the millions and millions of worlds that hold their majestic courses above our heads? Or was our small globe the favored one of all? Does one apple in a vast orchard think as much of itself as we do? or one leaf in the forest--or one grain of sand upon the sea shore? Do the pismires argue upon vexed questions of pismire theology--and do they climb a molehill and look abroad over the grand universe of an acre of ground and say "Great is God, who created all things for Us?"
- Samuel Clemens aka Mark Twain in a letter to Olivia Landon (Clemens) 8 January 1870

‘popsthebuilder’ pid=‘1030863’ dateline=‘1468445169’ Wrote:I really did enjoy your post for multiple reasons.

Happy to entertain.

‘popsthebuilder’ pid=‘1030863’ dateline=‘1468445169’ Wrote:I could only hope to be able to convey my points as you have done, maybe, eventually.

Perhaps if you championed logical and provable points it would be easier for you?
Not argue. Just seek with hope and keep doing what you know is right.

If GOD faults you for that then, well, what else could you have done?

Again, a quality read.

Peace

Most of you have much more promise/ potential than you may give yourselves credit for.

As for egoism like you expounded on; it apparent that it is not of the accord of GOD.

Again,

Humbly,

Peace

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.
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