Christianity for busy thinking people
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13-07-2016, 11:36 PM
RE: Christianity for busy thinking people
(13-07-2016 10:36 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(13-07-2016 10:34 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  So the idea of a soul is functionally identical to that of nothing, then? Surely to posit the existence of a thing you would have good reason to do so.
No it is functionally equivalent to live and existence, or at least the potential there of. The opposite of nothing or void.



Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

It's functionally equivalent to electrical energy that persists in the biochemical level of life... or air & breathe.

Most notions of the soul in historical arguments and questioning were of that regard.

I like how as always you've just gone away from the absent never elaborated or pinpointed notions of why consciousness or so called dominion is any level of advancement. The criteria was still again done one a uncritically examined level.

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14-07-2016, 04:51 AM
RE: Christianity for busy thinking people
(13-07-2016 11:32 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  
(13-07-2016 10:36 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  No it is functionally equivalent to live and existence, or at least the potential there of. The opposite of nothing or void.

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

But that does that mean? We already know how life works, no supernatural component which itself is inexplicable is required to explain function. Souls don't explain existence because assumedly non-soul bearing things exist showing it is an unrequired addition.

You yourself said you can't describe anything about souls; you can't state their functions or describe their properties. But now you are saying you can identify some form of soul-properties. But they way you state them themselves require narrowing in order to be useful; at the moment, souls or not, the function of the universe is the same, so functionally the things and nothing are identical as far as the current model is concerned.
Yes things exist without a soul. And I'm not sure about the soul by any means. I can't describe it really. But to me it seems like an energy for life that isn't confined to the material, nor created or destroyed. This can't be verified or tested either. It is interesting though.

I wish I could describe it more or better rather, but I just don't know. Yes life seems to work with the sum of it's material parts, but I still think the soul plays the most intricate part to life, and unifies it into one thing. It's hard for me to accept that passion, emotion, drive, morality, and similar things are strictly caused by the sum of their respective physical parts, or that this essence or energy is created or destroyed.

Still ultimately just conjecture though.



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14-07-2016, 04:56 AM
RE: Christianity for busy thinking people
(13-07-2016 11:36 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(13-07-2016 10:36 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  No it is functionally equivalent to live and existence, or at least the potential there of. The opposite of nothing or void.



Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

It's functionally equivalent to electrical energy that persists in the biochemical level of life... or air & breathe.

Most notions of the soul in historical arguments and questioning were of that regard.

I like how as always you've just gone away from the absent never elaborated or pinpointed notions of why consciousness or so called dominion is any level of advancement. The criteria was still again done one a uncritically examined level.
I'm sorry. I wasn't trying to get away from that topic. Its easier to describe than the soul.

I was having trouble expressing things that contradicted our dominion or our level of technological advancement, and was hoping others would offer up some specifics or particulars that refuted my point. Then we could go from there.



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14-07-2016, 05:53 AM
RE: Christianity for busy thinking people
(13-07-2016 09:55 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  I'm not interpreting them to mean any sort of thing. Just recognize on many levels that they are generally not to be taken literally, as parrables and entendre rarely are.

You ARE interpreting them:

(13-07-2016 05:17 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(13-07-2016 05:16 AM)Fatbaldhobbit Wrote:  No. The closet stuff is in the bible too.
I know, just means privacy though, not literally in the closet.

You cannot post things on a public forum and then deny that you are doing that. The words are there. You ARE interpreting. You CHANGED the words from closet to privacy. If you continue to deny that, you are lying.

And while the bible does say that Christ spoke in parables, it also notes when he does so. Not every word he spoke was a parable. Telling his listeners how they should pray was not a parable.

(13-07-2016 09:55 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  I have not in any way attempted to correct GOD. The fact that all inquiry I have personally done myself has only verified what I say and also coincides with what I had been so fortunate to be given.

By your own admission, you had not read the entire bible until recently, when we pressed you on the issue. That does not lend credence to a claim of inquiry.

(13-07-2016 09:55 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  You can think I'm lying or delusional or biased ...

Yeah, that about sums it up.

(13-07-2016 09:55 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  But the fact is that I am telling the truth.

Prove it. Until I see repeatable, verifiable evidence, confirmed through multiple, reputable sources, I do not believe your claims.

(13-07-2016 09:55 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  And though you cannot verify my personal experience you can inquire on your own without preconceptions and biase, as could anyone.

As I have noted before on this forum, multiple times, I was a believer for most of my life. My atheism is a result of inquiry. A still ongoing inquiry that I can honestly say was free from preconceptions and fueled by a desire to know the truth.

(13-07-2016 09:55 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  How can you even justify accusing me of judging GOD.

This sounds pretty judgmental to me:

(13-07-2016 03:31 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  That goes for pretty much all of it. It's parables and entendre, not to be merely understood literally. That's sorta the problem the Jew had in my opinion.

It sounds like you're saying that jesus should have preached in a different manner. It also seems a bit disrespectful, but hey, it's your god not mine.

(13-07-2016 09:55 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Granted you managed to do what you set out to do, which is offend me, but I have not judged GOD in my words here.

If an accurate refutation of your preaching offends you then so be it. My only goal is to counter the bullshit.

(13-07-2016 09:55 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  I have not and will not ever question what I know to be GOD again.

Then you are not engaged in a search for the truth. You are convinced that you have found the truth and seek only to reinforce that belief.

(13-07-2016 09:55 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  I do not speak of any fault of GOD as there is none.

According to the bible, god is full of flaws. Anger, jealousy and envy are proudly proclaimed in the ten commandments. There's also no mercy in an eternal hell.

(13-07-2016 09:55 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  I am free to identify, clarify, and resolve the faults of man to the extent of my ability ...

And we are free, dare I say "required" by conscience, to point out when you are full of shit. If that offends you, preach somewhere else.

(13-07-2016 09:55 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Strange analagy but; a head ache is somewhat descriptive of the experience in that neither can be confirmed or denied by any other, yet is irifutable to one who's head is hurting.

When you say "I have a headache" that does not have any effect on myself or other people. When you preach your god, you are telling people how they should live their lives, what they need to do to get to heaven and avoid hell. That affects the people who believe you and ripples outward.

(13-07-2016 09:55 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  But no, really, I've considered other possibilities, or at least tryed, I don't deny that I'm strange, but I'm not crazy. And when thinking of the initial happening; I cannot even think of or find any descriptors for it that are associated with any other possibilities.

Other posters have already described other possibilities to you. These have included hallucinations, mental illness and chemical use.

(13-07-2016 09:55 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Your last bit about authority is nonsense.

I'm sure you think so.

You are here, by your own admission, to preach and spread the word of your god and your experience. You make yourself heard and you do speak via your posts.

That point is exactly the sort of dishonest bullshit that I'm talking about.

You claim authority by invoking the name of your god. You claim to spread the word of the creator of the entire universe, all life itself. You claim to be buddies with him and that he speaks to you directly.

If you think that's not a claim to authority then you need to head back to the dictionary.

(13-07-2016 09:55 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  0 for 2?

Who am I fighting but myself?

I said that to preach you needed authority and rationality. By saying "0 for 2" I was stating that you have no authority (and no god) and that you are not speaking rationally.

Help for the living. Hope for the dead. ~ R.G. Ingersoll

Freedom offers opportunity. Opportunity confers responsibility. Responsibility to use the freedom we enjoy wisely, honestly and humanely. ~ Noam Chomsky
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14-07-2016, 05:59 AM
RE: Christianity for busy thinking people
(14-07-2016 04:56 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  I'm sorry. I wasn't trying to get away from that topic. Its easier to describe than the soul.

I was having trouble expressing things that contradicted our dominion or our level of technological advancement, and was hoping others would offer up some specifics or particulars that refuted my point. Then we could go from there.



Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

Hello pop's.
How are you today? Did you catch any public transport or did you drive?

Have you heard about the decline in bee population and how it could affect food production worldwide?

I fell earlier carrying a bowl of peaches and cream and have become so good at falling, I did not spill a drop.

Do you have trouble with balance issues? It can be a pain.

Have you been listening to the music of Chico Baroque? He's really good.

At any time in your life have you driven a tractor? I used to drive tractors.

Do you use empty boxes at home? I have one atop my cupboard. It helps in holding up a cable.

I hope you can answer these questions as I am really interested in your answers.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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14-07-2016, 06:05 AM
RE: Christianity for busy thinking people
(13-07-2016 10:06 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  No. A book cannot verify itself. Indeed that is circular logic. A book can lend credence to the words of another book though. This is not circular logic, but just as I said, evidence.

Two books supporting each other says nothing about whether or not their claims map to reality. The books are the claims, not the evidence.

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14-07-2016, 06:08 AM
RE: Christianity for busy thinking people
(13-07-2016 04:25 PM)Anjele Wrote:  OMFG! Are you guys really expecting reasonable, rational conversation with pops? Facepalm You must be the most optimistic people in the world.

I expect nothing reasonable or rational from Pops and he never disappoints.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
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14-07-2016, 06:16 AM
RE: Christianity for busy thinking people
(13-07-2016 04:33 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Don't conflate what I say.

I don't think 'conflate' is the word you want there

Quote:I didn't say we were better, just that we have power over other life unparalleled throughout observable existence.

I did not say that you said we were better, I said that you seemed to be implying that. If you aren't trying to imply that our being more technologically advanced makes us better in some way then what was the point of this:

(13-07-2016 03:26 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  It's strange to me how some atheists act as if we would be miniscule or without worth in an omniscient omnipotent GOD's eye, even though all throughout observable existence we are the most advanced life to be seen.

You are elevating humanity above all other known life. You go on to stress that we have dominion and then try to say you are being humble. Your ignorance is matched only by your arrogance. The sad part is that you can't see either one.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
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14-07-2016, 06:23 AM
RE: Christianity for busy thinking people
(13-07-2016 04:31 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  I've heard some say animals don't have a soul, but I think they do.

Define what a soul is. Show how you can demonstrate that humans have souls. It is ridiculous to ponder whether or not animals have them when you can't even define what they are or show that they exist in any sense other than the poetic one.

Quote:As far as atheists are concerned; it depends on their actions and if they where simply ignorant because GOD never showed them otherwise, or if they just ignored something that was shown.

According to your theology in your little delusional world which, surprise, surprise, just happens to line up with what you already believe. You have no evidence that a god exists or that there is any sort of afterlife.

Quote:I guess if you don't believe that Jesus was the Christ then you may have a problem. So maybe those who actually believe that he never even existed may have trouble. Then again, it still can go back to the whole ignorance thing.

Well, you may qualify an an expert on ignorance.

Quote:Not calling anyone ignorant or damned for all eternity.

Yes, you are doing both. I'm doing the former in your case but at least I'm honest about it. You wallow in your ignorance and delusions and you appear to be proud of that. You need help.

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
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14-07-2016, 10:55 AM
RE: Christianity for busy thinking people
(14-07-2016 06:23 AM)unfogged Wrote:  
(13-07-2016 04:31 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  I've heard some say animals don't have a soul, but I think they do.

Define what a soul is. Show how you can demonstrate that humans have souls. It is ridiculous to ponder whether or not animals have them when you can't even define what they are or show that they exist in any sense other than the poetic one.

Quote:As far as atheists are concerned; it depends on their actions and if they where simply ignorant because GOD never showed them otherwise, or if they just ignored something that was shown.

According to your theology in your little delusional world which, surprise, surprise, just happens to line up with what you already believe. You have no evidence that a god exists or that there is any sort of afterlife.

Quote:I guess if you don't believe that Jesus was the Christ then you may have a problem. So maybe those who actually believe that he never even existed may have trouble. Then again, it still can go back to the whole ignorance thing.

Well, you may qualify an an expert on ignorance.

Quote:Not calling anyone ignorant or damned for all eternity.

Yes, you are doing both. I'm doing the former in your case but at least I'm honest about it. You wallow in your ignorance and delusions and you appear to be proud of that. You need help.
I can't define a soul and agree that speculation is just that.

You saying my theology doesn't prove GOD is a pretty useless statement. You and I already know that, and I'm not trying to provide proof for something that cannot be otherwise proven or not.



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