Christianity for busy thinking people
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14-07-2016, 11:03 PM
RE: Christianity for busy thinking people
(14-07-2016 10:45 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(14-07-2016 10:37 PM)Banjo Wrote:  You're welcome, but you do realise you have just contradicted everything you've said?
I'm not sure how. Could you explain it for me?

You had said that I made it seem like scripture contradicted itself. I said that I was not aware of that, and that it wasn't my intention.

Now you say I have contradicted myself too.

Please help me to connect the dots.

Are you referring to times when I said Jesus spoke out against the literal interpretation of the law of Moses? Are you talking about the traditions and doctrines of different sects and schisms.

I am honestly confused. But I am tired.

I'm convinced I be missed something now.

Please explain.

Thank you,

Peace


Faith in selfless Unity for Good.


Okay. Usung scripture is a double edged sword. As you have been doing. Believe me, for every piece of scripture you leave, I am able to counter it with other scripture.

This is one of the benefits of having actually studied xian literature. The passage I left from Timothy basically says ALL scripture is to be used.

Now think about the confusion this creates when one passage contradicts another?

I have a very long history of debating actual priests and ministers. Indeed, I converted two catholic priests to atheism and made a baptist minister admit his god was evil.

Some of us have a long history at this. Sadly my brain no longer functions as it did. Otherwise I'd be quoting everyone from Origen to Aquinas.

What actually matters is hard evidence. The bible is unable to provide this and has been proven wrong by archeology many times.

Especially when dealing with atheists who dismiss it out of hand. Many of whom know it better than the theist attempting to project it upon them.

You seem a decent sort of bloke Pop's, you really do. But your methods are ill conceived on a website such as this.

IHTH.

Cheers. Dale

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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14-07-2016, 11:23 PM
RE: Christianity for busy thinking people
(14-07-2016 11:03 PM)Banjo Wrote:  
(14-07-2016 10:45 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  I'm not sure how. Could you explain it for me?

You had said that I made it seem like scripture contradicted itself. I said that I was not aware of that, and that it wasn't my intention.

Now you say I have contradicted myself too.

Please help me to connect the dots.

Are you referring to times when I said Jesus spoke out against the literal interpretation of the law of Moses? Are you talking about the traditions and doctrines of different sects and schisms.

I am honestly confused. But I am tired.

I'm convinced I be missed something now.

Please explain.

Thank you,

Peace


Faith in selfless Unity for Good.


Okay. Usung scripture is a double edged sword. As you have been doing. Believe me, for every piece of scripture you leave, I am able to counter it with other scripture.

This is one of the benefits of having actually studied xian literature. The passage I left from Timothy basically says ALL scripture is to be used.

Now think about the confusion this creates when one passage contradicts another?

I have a very long history of debating actual priests and ministers. Indeed, I converted two catholic priests to atheism and made a baptist minister admit his god was evil.

Some of us have a long history at this. Sadly my brain no longer functions as it did. Otherwise I'd be quoting everyone from Origen to Aquinas.

What actually matters is hard evidence. The bible is unable to provide this and has been proven wrong by archeology many times.

Especially when dealing with atheists who dismiss it out of hand. Many of whom know it better than the theist attempting to project it upon them.

You seem a decent sort of bloke Pop's, you really do. But your methods are ill conceived on a website such as this.

IHTH.

Cheers. Dale
I agree that the genealogy and historicity of scripture are somewhat suspect. But these things aren't the focus of scripture. And in the case of the genealogies; we are told to disregard them. If by history you mean the creation description; though I think six days can be expressed as 6 aeons, the fact that it says plants were formed before the Sun, coupled with he believe of a 6 aeon creation period it is hard to understand or reconcile these two issues.
There are a few things that stand out in the ot with regards to being against my limited understanding of the Will of GOD, but even still, they are useful and in that book for at least a reason or lesson.

I am quite certain you are a capable debater. I'm even more certain that even a year ago I would have been in trouble. Five/ten years ago. Ida been up shit creek.

I don't doubt that you succeeded in turning some from their faith. I don't think that is your motive at this point, and I am thankful...to you. I do earnestly hope for your quickened peace, so much so that I have....

I'm not trying to offend, so I will not complete that. Just know that I am glad for you.

Peace friend, with all humility and sincerity.

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.
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14-07-2016, 11:32 PM
RE: Christianity for busy thinking people
(14-07-2016 11:23 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(14-07-2016 11:03 PM)Banjo Wrote:  Okay. Usung scripture is a double edged sword. As you have been doing. Believe me, for every piece of scripture you leave, I am able to counter it with other scripture.

This is one of the benefits of having actually studied xian literature. The passage I left from Timothy basically says ALL scripture is to be used.

Now think about the confusion this creates when one passage contradicts another?

I have a very long history of debating actual priests and ministers. Indeed, I converted two catholic priests to atheism and made a baptist minister admit his god was evil.

Some of us have a long history at this. Sadly my brain no longer functions as it did. Otherwise I'd be quoting everyone from Origen to Aquinas.

What actually matters is hard evidence. The bible is unable to provide this and has been proven wrong by archeology many times.

Especially when dealing with atheists who dismiss it out of hand. Many of whom know it better than the theist attempting to project it upon them.

You seem a decent sort of bloke Pop's, you really do. But your methods are ill conceived on a website such as this.

IHTH.

Cheers. Dale
I agree that the genealogy and historicity of scripture are somewhat suspect. But these things aren't the focus of scripture. And in the case of the genealogies; we are told to disregard them. If by history you mean the creation description; though I think six days can be expressed as 6 aeons, the fact that it says plants were formed before the Sun, coupled with he believe of a 6 aeon creation period it is hard to understand or reconcile these two issues.
There are a few things that stand out in the ot with regards to being against my limited understanding of the Will of GOD, but even still, they are useful and in that book for at least a reason or lesson.

I am quite certain you are a capable debater. I'm even more certain that even a year ago I would have been in trouble. Five/ten years ago. Ida been up shit creek.

I don't doubt that you succeeded in turning some from their faith. I don't think that is your motive at this point, and I am thankful...to you. I do earnestly hope for your quickened peace, so much so that I have....

I'm not trying to offend, so I will not complete that. Just know that I am glad for you.

Peace friend, with all humility and sincerity.

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

Thanks mate.

No. I no longer care to really get into debates. I only do so when glaring mistakes are made historically and scripturally.

As far as I am concerned, one can believe whatever one wants.

May I advise a short book you may find interesting? Meditations, by Roman emperor, Marcus Aurelius. Originally it was called To himself. Because he wrote it as a personal journal.

The below is not an exact quote, but sums up his views. The book can be found online.

[Image: live-a-good-life-marcus-aurelius-live-by...-quote.jpg]

Meditations.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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15-07-2016, 12:08 AM
RE: Christianity for busy thinking people
(14-07-2016 11:32 PM)Banjo Wrote:  
(14-07-2016 11:23 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  I agree that the genealogy and historicity of scripture are somewhat suspect. But these things aren't the focus of scripture. And in the case of the genealogies; we are told to disregard them. If by history you mean the creation description; though I think six days can be expressed as 6 aeons, the fact that it says plants were formed before the Sun, coupled with he believe of a 6 aeon creation period it is hard to understand or reconcile these two issues.
There are a few things that stand out in the ot with regards to being against my limited understanding of the Will of GOD, but even still, they are useful and in that book for at least a reason or lesson.

I am quite certain you are a capable debater. I'm even more certain that even a year ago I would have been in trouble. Five/ten years ago. Ida been up shit creek.

I don't doubt that you succeeded in turning some from their faith. I don't think that is your motive at this point, and I am thankful...to you. I do earnestly hope for your quickened peace, so much so that I have....

I'm not trying to offend, so I will not complete that. Just know that I am glad for you.

Peace friend, with all humility and sincerity.

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

Thanks mate.

No. I no longer care to really get into debates. I only do so when glaring mistakes are made historically and scripturally.

As far as I am concerned, one can believe whatever one wants.

May I advise a short book you may find interesting? Meditations, by Roman emperor, Marcus Aurelius. Originally it was called To himself. Because he wrote it as a personal journal.

The below is not an exact quote, but sums up his views. The book can be found online.

[Image: live-a-good-life-marcus-aurelius-live-by...-quote.jpg]

Meditations.
Pretty intelligent words.

Normally I would not even consider it, but in this case I will be looking into it optimistically, due to your sincerity and the name of, and quote from the author.

What is good to realize is that this adoration and praise, really is a means to which one keeps truths close in mind and as such, in action. In other words, worship isn't for the sake of GOD. It is to keep these virtuous things close in mind, and as such, close at hand.

Indeed of there where any GOD worth adoration it would be that one which is just and merciful.


I'll leave it at that for your sake and mine.

Peace bro

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.
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15-07-2016, 12:39 AM
RE: Christianity for busy thinking people
No worries mate. The good thing about the book is it is anecdotes. You can open any page any time. I really think you'll like Marcus.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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15-07-2016, 01:01 AM (This post was last modified: 15-07-2016 01:04 AM by popsthebuilder.)
RE: Christianity for busy thinking people
(15-07-2016 12:39 AM)Banjo Wrote:  No worries mate. The good thing about the book is it is anecdotes. You can open any page any time. I really think you'll like Marcus.
It sounds interesting. You don't remember the name of it, or do you suggest just searching the author?


Oh wow. That's terrible, you have the name and author.

Sshhh
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15-07-2016, 01:09 AM
RE: Christianity for busy thinking people
(15-07-2016 01:01 AM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(15-07-2016 12:39 AM)Banjo Wrote:  No worries mate. The good thing about the book is it is anecdotes. You can open any page any time. I really think you'll like Marcus.
It sounds interesting. You don't remember the name of it, or do you suggest just searching the author?


Oh wow. That's terrible, you have the name and author.

Sshhh
Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

There's a link under the image to the online book in my post. Meditations. I paid $50.00 for my editions. Of course that was years ago. Now on the net it is free. As is a great deal of ancient literature.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
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15-07-2016, 01:37 AM
RE: Christianity for busy thinking people
(14-07-2016 09:33 PM)Free Thought Wrote:  
(14-07-2016 08:05 PM)pasadi97 Wrote:  Death = the soul exits the cloth named body and wanders around. The cloth named body is thrown into ground and becomes dust, soul or you go to one destination Hell or Heaven.

Atheism gives you a great chance to go to Hell and do make an irreparable lost to me and to Heaven.

First, I will point out that the 'body to dust' thing only really started when coffins or hollowed cave repositories began being produced and used. Under natural conditions the body just gets eaten by wildlife (by their carrion scavengers or worms in the case of unprotected burial) and plants that grow on it once left for a time (not including said burials).

Secondly, you will win nothing by threatening me or anybody else with hell. I'm sure threats are not what you intend, but it's no different than somebody promising not to send me to the hospital and torch my store if I give them $50 a week, expecting that it is about belief rather than currency and one is more extreme.
You must realise that hell and heaven mean nothing to me. Nothing at all. As the comedian Josh Thomas once said: "As an atheist, threatening me with hell is like a hippie threatening to punch me in my aura."
May as well be telling me Santa wont give me gifts if I a naughty.

Would you take a Mormon seriously if they told you if you don't believe in the prophetic nature of Joseph Smith's scrawlings you wont get to rule a planet once you are dead? If a Muslim told you to be wary of djinns, would you go to the nearest Mosque for advice combating them?

(14-07-2016 08:05 PM)pasadi97 Wrote:  Because a priest that cleaned his vision and could see with soul vision and could see angels, souls said that he saw many sould going near coffins, levitating above the coffin at funerals. If it would be brain then what are the souls doing there why the people with soul vision can see souls?

Also Eastern Orthodox Church make prayers for departed at intervals of time, years, months after death. When these prayers are done, people that see souls say that the souls of the deceased for which the prayers are done by priest come there and can be seen. If they did bad or were atheists probable devils bring them, if they did well good angels bring them.

So how come brain activity when brain is in ground by many years and gone for a long time. No brain activity but soul. THat is proof.

Father Ilarion Argatu about seeing a soul after death https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1q0Zk7-zuE No translation available.

So the person that believed he would see something saw something? That is not very compelling. How do you know he is telling the truth, or isn't subject to delusion?
There are people who would swear to you with equal honesty as your priest fellow that they have spiders under their skin, or that the government is after them. A person can believe something to be true without it being so.

Group delusion is well understood; if you have a group of people that are primed to believe and expect something to occur, quite frequently they will experience the thing they have been made to expect, while impartial observes will not. This works with more than just Christians; it can be observed almost universally where there are united groups of people reverently expecting something; Wiccans, Muslims, Jews, ghost hunters, psychics, Morgellons 'sufferers', you name a group with motivated reasons to see something and you will find groups that have seen that something.
The usual pattern is roughly thus; a group will be motivated to experience something, and the 'leader' of the group will act as they they had experienced something, and others will report similar, (or even entirely different) incidences. As more people react to the 'happening', more are encouraged by group dynamics to 'experience' as well, and those who have are reinforced by the the continuing reactions. Even if a person doesn't experience anything, they will convince themselves that something happened. Humans are not immune to social influence deliberately engineered or innocently formed.

(14-07-2016 08:05 PM)pasadi97 Wrote:  I have the proof that NDE is not brain activity but soul leaving the body. Why?

Nothing you mentioned is concrete proof. It's just anecdotes that aren't even unique.


I just want to touch on one last thing about NDEs in this post: why is it that religious NDE experiences are overwhelmingly reported as those of the 'experiencer's' religious beliefs? Why do Roman Catholics see Jesus upon his throne, but Hindus might see Brahma?

QFT. Nothing to add. I just thought these answers deserved a re-post.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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15-07-2016, 01:39 AM
RE: Christianity for busy thinking people
I don't think Pasadi is stupid. I think he's gullible and thus delusional. There's an important difference.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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15-07-2016, 02:07 AM
RE: Christianity for busy thinking people
Thanks, Rocket!

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