Christianity for busy thinking people
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21-07-2016, 05:26 PM
RE: Christianity for busy thinking people
(21-07-2016 05:06 PM)pasadi97 Wrote:  Holy Water miracle of Eastern Orthodox Church. http://stmaryofstamford.org/holywater.html

gullible
or gullable
[guhl-uh-buh l]

adjective
1. easily deceived or cheated.

Synonyms
credulous, trusting, naive, innocent, simple, green, pasadi97

Atheism: it's not just for communists any more!
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21-07-2016, 05:26 PM
RE: Christianity for busy thinking people
(21-07-2016 05:23 PM)pasadi97 Wrote:  
(21-07-2016 01:22 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  Please stop unrelated babbling. You may do this witin your church or congregation. I prefer actual conversation. If you dont want to engage with me, then say so. If you wanna talk to me, then do so, related to my topics.
I consider random talkings to strangers to be either pathologic or an insult.

So again, and please no 2 page essays.

How.do.you.know.it.was.God.
Are you trying to tell me its because some other people say so?
Please spare me with stories of other people and why other people may or may not have engaged with god. Or are you trying to argue you believe all this because someone else said/wrote that something happened to him/her? Are you really that gullible?

Did he talk to you?

Look based on first story they built a Church that is eastern orthodox. Even today if one compares Eastern Orthodox and Roman Catholic Holy Waters , orthodox resists more because Catholics changed the prayer. Protestants departed even farther away renouncing Holy Water all together.

Also Easterb Oerthodox Church has the way of prayer and many that walked on it went to Heaven.
Also the Church has many stories of people going to Heaven
https://oca.org/saints/lives/2008/09/11/...alexandria
Saint Euphrosynus the Cook was from one of the Palestinian monasteries, and his obedience was to work in the kitchen as a cook. Toiling away for the brethren, St Euphrosynus did not absent himself from thought about God, but rather dwelt in prayer and fasting. He remembered always that obedience is the first duty of a monk, and therefore he was obedient to the elder brethren.

The patience of the saint was amazing: they often reproached him, but he made no complaint and endured every unpleasantness. St Euphrosynus pleased the Lord by his inner virtue which he concealed from people, and the Lord Himself revealed to the monastic brethren the spiritual heights of their unassuming fellow-monk.

One of the priests of the monastery prayed and asked the Lord to show him the blessings prepared for the righteous in the age to come. The priest saw in a dream what Paradise is like, and he contemplated its inexplicable beauty with fear and with joy.

He also saw there a monk of his monastery, the cook Euphrosynus. Amazed at this encounter, the presbyter asked Euphrosynus, how he came to be there. The saint answered that he was in Paradise through the great mercy of God. The priest again asked whether Euphrosynus would be able to give him something from the surrounding beauty. St Euphrosynus suggested to the priest to take whatever he wished, and so the priest pointed to three luscious apples growing in the garden of Paradise. The monk picked the three apples, wrapped them in a cloth, and gave them to his companion.

When he awoke in the early morning, the priest thought the vision a dream, but suddenly he noticed next to him the cloth with the fruit of Paradise wrapped in it, and emitting a wondrous fragrance. The priest, found St Euphrosynus in church and asked him under oath where he was the night before. The saint answered that he was where the priest also was. Then the monk said that the Lord, in fulfilling the prayer of the priest, had shown him Paradise and had bestown the fruit of Paradise through him, “ the lowly and unworthy servant of God, Euphrosynus.”

The priest related everything to the monastery brethren, pointing out the spiritual loftiness of Euphrosynus in pleasing God, and he pointed to the fragrant paradaisical fruit. Deeply affected by what they heard, the monks went to the kitchen, in order to pay respect to St Euphrosynus, but they did not find him there. Fleeing human glory, the monk had left the monastery. The place where he concealed himself remained unknown, but the monks always remembered that their monastic brother St Euphrosynus had come upon Paradise, and that they in being saved, through the mercy of God would meet him there. They reverently kept and distributed pieces of the apples from Paradise for blessing and for healing.

If Eastern Orthodox would have interdiction to Heaven nobody would say I was to Heaven.

I see you need more proof. I can not give you a trip to Heaven to see with your eyes. Pray to God so that God will give you the proof you need.
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21-07-2016, 05:28 PM
RE: Christianity for busy thinking people
(21-07-2016 05:26 PM)pasadi97 Wrote:  I can not give you a trip to Heaven to see with your eyes.

I been there. It's a nice place to visit but I wouldn't want to live there.

#sigh
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21-07-2016, 08:13 PM (This post was last modified: 21-07-2016 08:20 PM by Astreja.)
RE: Christianity for busy thinking people
(21-07-2016 05:26 PM)pasadi97 Wrote:  I see you need more proof. I can not give you a trip to Heaven to see with your eyes. Pray to God so that God will give you the proof you need.

I do not pray. At all. Not even to the gods of My Scandinavian ancestors. The closest I get is to toast those gods with the first mug of mead when brewing, and it's done for cultural reasons rather than religious ones.

I will not debase My precious critical thinking facilities by pretending to pray to something that I sincerely believe to be utterly imaginary.

Ball is in your alleged god's court, Pasadi. If it cannot make its existence known to non-believers without prayer, then it's a useless, vicious-minded fuck that apparently doesn't care that much if non-believers do end up in hell. As such, if anyone actually does end up in hell the responsibility for this crime will lie solely and eternally with your god.

And I say again: This is not negotiable. If there is no empirical evidence available that points uniquely to your god, then I have no choice but to continue to see it as pure mythology.
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21-07-2016, 08:16 PM
RE: Christianity for busy thinking people
(21-07-2016 05:23 PM)pasadi97 Wrote:  Look based on first story {emphasis Mine} they built a Church that is eastern orthodox...

Key word here is "story." How do you know the story is actually true, Pasadi?
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21-07-2016, 08:18 PM
RE: Christianity for busy thinking people
(21-07-2016 05:05 PM)pasadi97 Wrote:  
(20-07-2016 09:49 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  Oh. That's odd.

Baptist historian Bruce Gourley outlines four main views of Baptist origins: (1) The modern scholarly consensus that the movement traces its origin to the 17th century via the English Separatists, (2) the view that it was an outgrowth of Anabaptist traditions, (3) the perpetuity view which assumes that the Baptist faith and practice has existed since the time of Christ, and (4) the successionist view, or "Baptist successionism", which argues that Baptist churches actually existed in an unbroken chain since the time of Christ.[3]

Prior to the 20th century, Baptist historians generally wrote from the perspective that Baptists had existed since the time of Christ.[20] Proponents of the Baptist successionist or perpetuity view consider the Baptist movement to have existed independently from Roman Catholicism and prior to the Protestant Reformation.[21]

The perpetuity view is often identified with The Trail of Blood, a booklet of five lectures by J.M. Carrol published in 1931.[21] Other Baptist writers who advocate the successionist theory of Baptist origins are John T. Christian, Thomas Crosby, G. H. Orchard, J. M. Cramp, William Cathcart, Adam Taylor and D. B. Ray[21][22] This view was also held by English Baptist preacher, Charles Spurgeon[23] as well as Jesse Mercer, the namesake of Mercer University.[24][original research?]

Baptist successionism (also known as "Baptist perpetuity") is one of several theories on the origin and continuation of Baptist churches. The tenet of the theory is that there has been an unbroken chain of churches since the days of John the Baptist, who baptized Christ, which have held beliefs similar (although not always the name) to those of current Baptists. Ancient anti-paedobaptist groups, such as the Montanists, Paulicians, Cathari, Waldenses, Albigenses, and Anabaptists, have been among those viewed by Baptist successionists as the predecessors of modern-day Baptists.[1]

All from Wikipedia.



Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

Baptist dating to John the Baptist is just a theory. And there are large periods of time when there were no traces of baptists in this theory. And they existed in so large number that their founder and originator had to be a Church of England pastor:
"Smyth was ordained as an Anglican priest in 1594 in England. He preached in the city of Lincoln in 1600 to 1602.[3] Soon after his ordination, he broke with the Church of England and left for Holland where he and his small congregation began to study the Bible ardently. He briefly returned to England."

I don't believe this theory.
You stated that the Baptist church was established in the 1600s. When asked about another theory going all the way back to John the Baptist, you said there was none.

I showed that there are four theories related to the origins of the Baptist church, and your rebuttal is that you don't prescribe to one of the other three beliefs there for they don't exist?

I didn't ask your opinion on the origins, in which case you still should have at least mentioned other theories, but I asked if there was another theory. You said there wasn't.

Do you see the problem here?

Disingenuous

Manipulated

Opposing motive

The nature of deceit is that it can and does generally lie deep within if it is so obvious from without. It can be utterly insidious and blinding as well, rooting in to the deepest of personal processes. From there it can steer you about at will, with you none the wiser. Believe it or not; some tradition has a way of removing one from the full truth, and by doing so, relinquishes their potential.

I'll leave it at that, as I am guilty of my own faults.

Peace

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.
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21-07-2016, 08:22 PM
RE: Christianity for busy thinking people
(21-07-2016 05:23 PM)pasadi97 Wrote:  
(21-07-2016 01:22 AM)Deesse23 Wrote:  Please stop unrelated babbling. You may do this witin your church or congregation. I prefer actual conversation. If you dont want to engage with me, then say so. If you wanna talk to me, then do so, related to my topics.
I consider random talkings to strangers to be either pathologic or an insult.

So again, and please no 2 page essays.

How.do.you.know.it.was.God.
Are you trying to tell me its because some other people say so?
Please spare me with stories of other people and why other people may or may not have engaged with god. Or are you trying to argue you believe all this because someone else said/wrote that something happened to him/her? Are you really that gullible?

Did he talk to you?

Look based on first story they built a Church that is eastern orthodox. Even today if one compares Eastern Orthodox and Roman Catholic Holy Waters , orthodox resists more because Catholics changed the prayer. Protestants departed even farther away renouncing Holy Water all together.

Also Easterb Oerthodox Church has the way of prayer and many that walked on it went to Heaven.
Also the Church has many stories of people going to Heaven
https://oca.org/saints/lives/2008/09/11/...alexandria
Saint Euphrosynus the Cook was from one of the Palestinian monasteries, and his obedience was to work in the kitchen as a cook. Toiling away for the brethren, St Euphrosynus did not absent himself from thought about God, but rather dwelt in prayer and fasting. He remembered always that obedience is the first duty of a monk, and therefore he was obedient to the elder brethren.

The patience of the saint was amazing: they often reproached him, but he made no complaint and endured every unpleasantness. St Euphrosynus pleased the Lord by his inner virtue which he concealed from people, and the Lord Himself revealed to the monastic brethren the spiritual heights of their unassuming fellow-monk.

One of the priests of the monastery prayed and asked the Lord to show him the blessings prepared for the righteous in the age to come. The priest saw in a dream what Paradise is like, and he contemplated its inexplicable beauty with fear and with joy.

He also saw there a monk of his monastery, the cook Euphrosynus. Amazed at this encounter, the presbyter asked Euphrosynus, how he came to be there. The saint answered that he was in Paradise through the great mercy of God. The priest again asked whether Euphrosynus would be able to give him something from the surrounding beauty. St Euphrosynus suggested to the priest to take whatever he wished, and so the priest pointed to three luscious apples growing in the garden of Paradise. The monk picked the three apples, wrapped them in a cloth, and gave them to his companion.

When he awoke in the early morning, the priest thought the vision a dream, but suddenly he noticed next to him the cloth with the fruit of Paradise wrapped in it, and emitting a wondrous fragrance. The priest, found St Euphrosynus in church and asked him under oath where he was the night before. The saint answered that he was where the priest also was. Then the monk said that the Lord, in fulfilling the prayer of the priest, had shown him Paradise and had bestown the fruit of Paradise through him, “ the lowly and unworthy servant of God, Euphrosynus.”

The priest related everything to the monastery brethren, pointing out the spiritual loftiness of Euphrosynus in pleasing God, and he pointed to the fragrant paradaisical fruit. Deeply affected by what they heard, the monks went to the kitchen, in order to pay respect to St Euphrosynus, but they did not find him there. Fleeing human glory, the monk had left the monastery. The place where he concealed himself remained unknown, but the monks always remembered that their monastic brother St Euphrosynus had come upon Paradise, and that they in being saved, through the mercy of God would meet him there. They reverently kept and distributed pieces of the apples from Paradise for blessing and for healing.
So the monk was eastern orthodox?



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21-07-2016, 08:57 PM (This post was last modified: 21-07-2016 09:04 PM by GirlyMan.)
RE: Christianity for busy thinking people
(21-07-2016 08:22 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  So the monk was eastern orthodox?





The Man is at the door. And the monk bought lunch.

#sigh
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21-07-2016, 09:37 PM
RE: Christianity for busy thinking people
(21-07-2016 08:18 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  
(21-07-2016 05:05 PM)pasadi97 Wrote:  Baptist dating to John the Baptist is just a theory. And there are large periods of time when there were no traces of baptists in this theory. And they existed in so large number that their founder and originator had to be a Church of England pastor:
"Smyth was ordained as an Anglican priest in 1594 in England. He preached in the city of Lincoln in 1600 to 1602.[3] Soon after his ordination, he broke with the Church of England and left for Holland where he and his small congregation began to study the Bible ardently. He briefly returned to England."

I don't believe this theory.
You stated that the Baptist church was established in the 1600s. When asked about another theory going all the way back to John the Baptist, you said there was none.

I showed that there are four theories related to the origins of the Baptist church, and your rebuttal is that you don't prescribe to one of the other three beliefs there for they don't exist?

I didn't ask your opinion on the origins, in which case you still should have at least mentioned other theories, but I asked if there was another theory. You said there wasn't.

Do you see the problem here?

Disingenuous

Manipulated

Opposing motive

The nature of deceit is that it can and does generally lie deep within if it is so obvious from without. It can be utterly insidious and blinding as well, rooting in to the deepest of personal processes. From there it can steer you about at will, with you none the wiser. Believe it or not; some tradition has a way of removing one from the full truth, and by doing so, relinquishes their potential.

I'll leave it at that, as I am guilty of my own faults.

Peace

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

What evidence is there, you copied out a statement that shows, The Baptists Historians, already in the church, proclaim their church has a independent lineages that lingered... where? what evidence is provided? zero, why? Are you trying to provide it as evidence to be a claim or is it that low of a claim you want to show, because all you showed is Baptists believer baptism goes back to John the Baptists. That isn't historical data.

It's seriously questionable to think someone like yourself truly has critical thinking skills that don't notice the horrible lacking trustworthiness of such empty claims.

You've got to be basically on a basis of, if someone claims you, you have to consider it... well I guess that flies for someone who wants to go around claiming to have been spoken to by a god.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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22-07-2016, 04:46 AM
RE: Christianity for busy thinking people
(21-07-2016 09:37 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(21-07-2016 08:18 PM)popsthebuilder Wrote:  You stated that the Baptist church was established in the 1600s. When asked about another theory going all the way back to John the Baptist, you said there was none.

I showed that there are four theories related to the origins of the Baptist church, and your rebuttal is that you don't prescribe to one of the other three beliefs there for they don't exist?

I didn't ask your opinion on the origins, in which case you still should have at least mentioned other theories, but I asked if there was another theory. You said there wasn't.

Do you see the problem here?

Disingenuous

Manipulated

Opposing motive

The nature of deceit is that it can and does generally lie deep within if it is so obvious from without. It can be utterly insidious and blinding as well, rooting in to the deepest of personal processes. From there it can steer you about at will, with you none the wiser. Believe it or not; some tradition has a way of removing one from the full truth, and by doing so, relinquishes their potential.

I'll leave it at that, as I am guilty of my own faults.

Peace

Faith in selfless Unity for Good.

What evidence is there, you copied out a statement that shows, The Baptists Historians, already in the church, proclaim their church has a independent lineages that lingered... where? what evidence is provided? zero, why? Are you trying to provide it as evidence to be a claim or is it that low of a claim you want to show, because all you showed is Baptists believer baptism goes back to John the Baptists. That isn't historical data.

It's seriously questionable to think someone like yourself truly has critical thinking skills that don't notice the horrible lacking trustworthiness of such empty claims.

You've got to be basically on a basis of, if someone claims you, you have to consider it... well I guess that flies for someone who wants to go around claiming to have been spoken to by a god.
I was simply showing that there were more than one theory on the origins of Baptists, because someone was saying there was only one

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