Christianity is false and immoral. (Hitchens)
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26-01-2011, 09:55 AM (This post was last modified: 20-04-2011 12:51 AM by DeepThought.)
Christianity is false and immoral. (Hitchens)
A concise indictment of Christian doctrines from Christopher Hitchens..probably the best 12 minute polemic I've ever heard. Enjoy! Wink




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxOpgzkg1Uo

* Embeded the video
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26-01-2011, 10:31 AM
RE: Christianity is false and immoral. (Hitchens)
I've never thought of the old testament Yahweh vs. the new testament Jesus like that. I'd rather be stoned to death, than spend an eternity in hell. Now Jesus doesn't seem more moral than Yahweh. :F

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26-01-2011, 01:20 PM
RE: Christianity is false and immoral. (Hitchens)
Strange
Always thought hell was an OT invention... Intersting

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Disclaimer: Don’t mix the personal opinion above with the absolute and objective truth. Remember to think for yourself. Thank you.
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26-01-2011, 02:01 PM
RE: Christianity is false and immoral. (Hitchens)
So true... What is this shit about erotics in christianity? They say it is the religion of happiness, coz they are happy about Jesus coming down and saving them. But why are they so prude on sex? Who would deny that is is a source if enjoyment, and happiness? Smile I would expect them to be eager on that.

..."we can be truly free - not because we can rebel against the the tyranny of the selfish replicators but because we know that there is no one to rebel."
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26-01-2011, 03:14 PM
RE: Christianity is false and immoral. (Hitchens)
I always saw monotheism as a form of a dictatorship/autocracy.
Love the scape goat metaphor -> from goat to human savior - any similarities ? LOL
Thanks for the link.
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26-01-2011, 08:47 PM
RE: Christianity is false and immoral. (Hitchens)
Thank you, I shared the video on my facebook!

The Beauty of The Scientific Method , is the Anticipation of a Better Explanation.
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27-01-2011, 01:34 AM
RE: Christianity is false and immoral. (Hitchens)
(26-01-2011 02:01 PM)TheSelfishGene Wrote:  So true... What is this shit about erotics in christianity? They say it is the religion of happiness, coz they are happy about Jesus coming down and saving them. But why are they so prude on sex? Who would deny that is is a source if enjoyment, and happiness? Smile I would expect them to be eager on that.

So that the high priests can have all the pretty girls, and alter boys, for themselves. Why do you think that old cathedrals and synagogs were so big? To impress the hell out of every one? Yes, but also to house some very private rooms.

When I find myself in times of trouble, Richard Dawkins comes to me, speaking words of reason, now I see, now I see.
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02-02-2011, 03:57 AM
 
RE: Christianity is false and immoral. (Hitchens)
An interesting point of view I will admit. However there are a few things that did not quite make sense to me. It seemed like his entire argument for the most part was against the origins of Christianity. While I agree that some parts of the bible are dubious and doubtful it seems that his argument does not seem aimed at trying to convince people that there is some discrepancy in their beliefs or how they think. Rather he is going out of his way to insult those whose beliefs do not match his. Now any first year psych student will tell you that by mounting a direct assault(as he has done here) on peoples beliefs will only force them to justify their beliefs and in fact will most likely make them stronger. As he seems like a intelligent fellow he must know this and thus is intentionally strengthening their beliefs. Unless this message is not aimed at those who believe but rather those who don't. In that case it seems to be a belligerent self supporting message further supporting open hostility towards those who do not agree with his views. In essence he is either attempting to strengthen peoples belief in god, or he is preaching hate towards like minded people. Perhaps both. I understand his message even though I am sorry that he has lost faith if he ever had it (but the rage with which he speaks points towards a lost faith, especially with the way he refers to lies to children).

With regards to the shedding of responsibility, I have always been told to take responsibility for my actions, not to believe that they are instantly forgiven. In fact I believe that God wants us to work hard to right our wrongs, if they involves Jail time community service etc then our debt to society must be paid. No get out of jail free cards.

In regards to lying to children, has he ever been a parent? Did he tell his three year old son where babies came from, did he tell him that Santa is not real? Did he never tell his child a lie? Did he tell his son that he was still proud of him even when he was not? If so I kinda feel sorry for the child who was robbed of all innocence at a young age. You are supposed to love them and yet you must also fear and respect them or else their words hold very little weight, their advice will go unfollowed and there is danger for the child in that. In that god matches with the image of the father figure as he is presented. How many of us learned life lessons or morals from stories? The bible is the same, it provides a guide stone for what it means to be a good person. Back to the points I started to mention above, about the time frame. You have to take many of the stories in the context of the time they were written. Time has changed, views have changed. Most people in this day and age would not agree with many of the time specific laws that are still listed in the bible today(such as those involving slavery for example) but to hold that against them seems to be extremely unfair. If a family owned slaves 150 years ago should we still treat them as bigots, torturers and murderers? Or should we accept that those views were representative of the time and that their present opinions should be respected? Remember not every person who believes in god is as portrayed here.

I feel that with this kind of language he is only increasing the divide between people and creating further animosity. Unless this was his plan I think it was a failed speech. Still very eloquently put. British accent was a nice touch

Sorry if this seems a little jumbled it was hard to organize all my thoughts at 5 am(and no I was not up all night praying in my religious zealotry as I am assuming some of you thought)
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02-02-2011, 04:22 AM
 
RE: Christianity is false and immoral. (Hitchens)
@TheSelfishGene: Christians believe that sex is only between a married couple and only for the purpose of procreation
@No J.: Cathedrals, synagogues, mosques, monasteries, and shrines are huge because they are meant to reflect the majesty of god, whatever god that maybe.
*cracks knuckles*
All right, the hell? I am getting really getting tired of people trying to make Confession (and other forms of absolution) seedy. Christians believe in sin. According to the New Testament, sin gets you sent to Hell. Therefore they devised a 'get out of hell free' card, except it isn't really free.
Hitchens talks about how Christians confess to a preacher. We don't. When I go to the confessional, I am not confessing to a priest. I am confessing my sins before God. That's the doctrine. It's a form of personal contemplation and remorse.
It's not a dismissal of personal responsibility. After the confession you are assigned a penance. This can be anything from saying prayers or possibly confessing to legal authority.
Let me give you an example:
I am driving home one night. Visibility is terrible. An innocent person is crossing the street and I can't stop in time. I slam on my brakes but hit and kill the person. In a panic I drive home. There will be a police investigation into a this hit and run. I (assuming I'm not a psychopath) feel deep remorse and regret and confess my sins to a priest. I will be given a penance of prayer and told to turn myself in. Now, yes, in front of God I have been absolved of the sin of manslaughter; however, we are still bound by the laws of man.
Towards the end of the video (12:13ish) Hitchens asked for a religion that celebrates human sexuality, right? I've got one: The worship of Aphrodite/Venus and the Babylonian goddess Ishtar. Both used sacred prostitutes. You read that right, they are prostitutes that you have sex with in worship of Aphrodite/Venus.
I understand that I've only really spoken about the beginning and end of the video. So let me get to something that really stuck in my craw. At 5:48, he talks about how he doesn't understand what it's like to lie to children. There is no way that a cleric or rabbi or priest or monk or any other religious figure believes that they are spreading lies to anyone. What they believe is that they are spreading the word of their god(s). Calling something a lie, implies that a person is willfully masking the truth. "Lying to children for a living" -ugh, what a load of crap.
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02-02-2011, 09:03 AM
RE: Christianity is false and immoral. (Hitchens)
So I have a question for TheModerateBeliever and creationistpidyn. Are you the same person, or friends that both joined to back each other up on this forum?

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