Christianity isn't all bad
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30-08-2012, 11:31 PM
RE: Christianity isn't all bad
(30-08-2012 05:15 PM)hylonome Wrote:  Looking around this forum, I've seen some pretty awful stories linked with Christianity. When people use religion in the wrong way, it can have terrible effects on a person's life and on the person themselves. Not for one minute am I doubting that. I do think, though, that religion can have a very positive effect on people. It can give people hope - the drive to carry on. I think that it's not religion that does damage, but people who use religion in the wrong way. I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts on this, so please reply! Smile

P.S. I gotta state that I am from the UK, so this is based on religion as it exists in Europe.


First let me say that while I disagree on some statements you made, none of this may pertain to other atheists, as this is my only, as I know of, my view.

Quote:I think that it's not religion that does damage, but people who use religion in the wrong way.

Let me disagree, only to a degree to which you may find quite specific. Christianity, Islam, and all of the other religions in the world that incorperate a Hell type dogma, has responsibility, and I think, rightly deserves the responsibility of atrocities, however major or minor.

Lets say, for the purpose of argument, that you were a Catholic. Now, as a Catholic, it is YOUR sacred creed to revere the Pope as a spiritual leader, that, when speaking from the chair, is infallible on Holy grounds.

We know for a fact, that Popes have been corrupt sons of bitches in the past, and are not immune to the tempation to do, what most of us would call "evil."

So, lets say the Pope says " Slaughter all Muslims, or Kill all heretics." and it becomes Law.

He would be using Catholicism in a bad way, right? Well, ask yourself this, what is stopping the Catholics from basically ignoring him?

Is it because he is infallible, which their RELIGION promotes?

Or maybe is it because if you DON'T do what the POPE says, you will burn in Hell?

This is the system of Catholicism, sure people can use it to corrupt, but the religion FORCES you into doing the corrupt deads.

People are forced into making the wrong choices, whether to kill muslims, or jews, or Atheists. They fear Hell, and want to be in Heaven, so they do what the Pope says.

Its the religion that enforces whatever the decree of the Pope says.

Since the religion was designed that way, it is a bad system, that is created almost to enslave people in fear.

Now, you bring up something that is rather strange. "Using religion in the wrong way" Can you tell me what religion is suppossed to be used for? What if Catholicism WAS MEANT for evil things, then those popes would be using it correctly, and the others wrongly?

By saying they are using it the wrong way, you have to assume that the right way was supossed to enlighten, and bring up people, to help one another. Plainly we do not know what religion is ORIGINALLY meant for (though there are some hypotheses that are logical), so we can not even make a call on what the right way to use religion even is.just because religion can do good, doesn't mean its original, and purpose was to do good. Doing good might have been tbe "wrong" way to use religion.

Quote:I do think, though, that religion can have a very positive effect on people. It can give people hope - the drive to carry on.

I have been quite vocal of the thinking that if you base your character off of something false, your character in turn is a false thing, because in was caused by a misconception of reality.

And I am very sorry to say that IF RELIGION is the ONLY thing making you good, then you aren't a compassionate, empathetic person. Plus, it is mostly those people that only do good just for the reward, and that makes them disgusting. They only do good because they want the prize, not because they actually care.

If religion is the sole reason to live, then its just living to die. You are just doing good, so that you can die and be happy in Heaven. Now I know its not always this way, but I see it happen many times, I have talked people out of suicides many times, trying to use religion as a means to let them keep living is basically saying:

"Hey, look, I know you want to die, but don't kill yourself, you'll burn if you do. Instead patiently wait out your time, and do good deeds, I promise you'll have a better after life."

Can you see how shallow this thinking is?

Now, lets talk about religions creeds and doctrines.

Hell: one of the most unjustified places for God to have created, the main reason why I think the teaching of it is evil is because it scares people into doing good, and that is dishonest way of teaching people why you should do good deeds.

Sinners: Sure, we humans make mistakes, but we shouldn't degrade ourselves by calling us sinners, we are just humans.

Original Sin( may not apply to you): this teaching goes against something I hold dear: That the newborn Child is innocent, especially of the offenses of its ancestors.

God: the Idea that a perfect being, whose every word is Law, is a horrible Idea, because anybody can use it to justify horrible atrocities, and it has caused damage. Nobody would have done the religious atrocities if not because of this fundemental idea.

Prayer: A system of which believers can be happy for something that they never did in the first place. It takes away all credit of the humans that risked their careers, lives, jobs, to make humanity better. People worked hard to get to where they are. Why should God take the credit for what people cried, shed blood for, and wasted countless amounts of years to develop?

To make a LONG post short: religion( in particular christianity) has a lot of bad ideas mixed into bad ideas that force people into making bad choices.

If they base themselves off of a religion, they run the risk of saying the most cold-hearted things, under the silly guise of religious "Authority."

Any false Idea is a bad one to base your life on.

Not ALL part of religions are bad, but the good parts are a vast minority.

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30-08-2012, 11:57 PM
RE: Christianity isn't all bad
(30-08-2012 05:15 PM)hylonome Wrote:  Looking around this forum, I've seen some pretty awful stories linked with Christianity. When people use religion in the wrong way, it can have terrible effects on a person's life and on the person themselves. Not for one minute am I doubting that. I do think, though, that religion can have a very positive effect on people. It can give people hope - the drive to carry on. I think that it's not religion that does damage, but people who use religion in the wrong way. I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts on this, so please reply! Smile

P.S. I gotta state that I am from the UK, so this is based on religion as it exists in Europe.

Sure, but who's to say that without religion people that "find hope" wouldn't have found it in something else?
The fact that they "found" hope implies that they were looking. All you need to do is replace religion with something else less damaging to society.

Think of it like this, a crying baby. You give him a teddy bear and he stops crying. That doesn't mean the teddy is inherently good, I mean afterall this teddy just happens to be covered in lots of little things that the baby could swallow and die from. Give that baby another less destructive bear and you'll get the same results of stopping the little shit from crying, but without the side effect of chocking to death. (worst metaphor ever yes I know)

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31-08-2012, 12:08 AM
RE: Christianity isn't all bad
(30-08-2012 11:31 PM)Atothetheist Wrote:  
(30-08-2012 05:15 PM)hylonome Wrote:  Looking around this forum, I've seen some pretty awful stories linked with Christianity. When people use religion in the wrong way, it can have terrible effects on a person's life and on the person themselves. Not for one minute am I doubting that. I do think, though, that religion can have a very positive effect on people. It can give people hope - the drive to carry on. I think that it's not religion that does damage, but people who use religion in the wrong way. I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts on this, so please reply! Smile

P.S. I gotta state that I am from the UK, so this is based on religion as it exists in Europe.


First let me say that while I disagree on some statements you made, none of this may pertain to other atheists, as this is my only, as I know of, my view.

Quote:I think that it's not religion that does damage, but people who use religion in the wrong way.

Let me disagree, only to a degree to which you may find quite specific. Christianity, Islam, and all of the other religions in the world that incorperate a Hell type dogma, has responsibility, and I think, rightly deserves the responsibility of atrocities, however major or minor.

Lets say, for the purpose of argument, that you were a Catholic. Now, as a Catholic, it is YOUR sacred creed to revere the Pope as a spiritual leader, that, when speaking from the chair, is infallible on Holy grounds.

We know for a fact, that Popes have been corrupt sons of bitches in the past, and are not immune to the tempation to do, what most of us would call "evil."

So, lets say the Pope says " Slaughter all Muslims, or Kill all heretics." and it becomes Law.

He would be using Catholicism in a bad way, right? Well, ask yourself this, what is stopping the Catholics from basically ignoring him?

Is it because he is infallible, which their RELIGION promotes?

Or maybe is it because if you DON'T do what the POPE says, you will burn in Hell?

This is the system of Catholicism, sure people can use it to corrupt, but the religion FORCES you into doing the corrupt deads.

People are forced into making the wrong choices, whether to kill muslims, or jews, or Atheists. They fear Hell, and want to be in Heaven, so they do what the Pope says.

Its the religion that enforces whatever the decree of the Pope says.

Since the religion was designed that way, it is a bad system, that is created almost to enslave people in fear.

Now, you bring up something that is rather strange. "Using religion in the wrong way" Can you tell me what religion is suppossed to be used for? What if Catholicism WAS MEANT for evil things, then those popes would be using it correctly, and the others wrongly?

By saying they are using it the wrong way, you have to assume that the right way was supossed to enlighten, and bring up people, to help one another. Plainly we do not know what religion is ORIGINALLY meant for (though there are some hypotheses that are logical), so we can not even make a call on what the right way to use religion even is.just because religion can do good, doesn't mean its original, and purpose was to do good. Doing good might have been tbe "wrong" way to use religion.

Quote:I do think, though, that religion can have a very positive effect on people. It can give people hope - the drive to carry on.

I have been quite vocal of the thinking that if you base your character off of something false, your character in turn is a false thing, because in was caused by a misconception of reality.

And I am very sorry to say that IF RELIGION is the ONLY thing making you good, then you aren't a compassionate, empathetic person. Plus, it is mostly those people that only do good just for the reward, and that makes them disgusting. They only do good because they want the prize, not because they actually care.

If religion is the sole reason to live, then its just living to die. You are just doing good, so that you can die and be happy in Heaven. Now I know its not always this way, but I see it happen many times, I have talked people out of suicides many times, trying to use religion as a means to let them keep living is basically saying:

"Hey, look, I know you want to die, but don't kill yourself, you'll burn if you do. Instead patiently wait out your time, and do good deeds, I promise you'll have a better after life."

Can you see how shallow this thinking is?

Now, lets talk about religions creeds and doctrines.

Hell: one of the most unjustified places for God to have created, the main reason why I think the teaching of it is evil is because it scares people into doing good, and that is dishonest way of teaching people why you should do good deeds.

Sinners: Sure, we humans make mistakes, but we shouldn't degrade ourselves by calling us sinners, we are just humans.

Original Sin( may not apply to you): this teaching goes against something I hold dear: That the newborn Child is innocent, especially of the offenses of its ancestors.

God: the Idea that a perfect being, whose every word is Law, is a horrible Idea, because anybody can use it to justify horrible atrocities, and it has caused damage. Nobody would have done the religious atrocities if not because of this fundemental idea.

Prayer: A system of which believers can be happy for something that they never did in the first place. It takes away all credit of the humans that risked their careers, lives, jobs, to make humanity better. People worked hard to get to where they are. Why should God take the credit for what people cried, shed blood for, and wasted countless amounts of years to develop?

To make a LONG post short: religion( in particular christianity) has a lot of bad ideas mixed into bad ideas that force people into making bad choices.

If they base themselves off of a religion, they run the risk of saying the most cold-hearted things, under the silly guise of religious "Authority."

Any false Idea is a bad one to base your life on.

Not ALL part of religions are bad, but the good parts are a vast minority.
EXCELLENT explanation. The only part I have a hard time with is any good parts. Religion is a belief system, I don't think the good people come from their religion. Children like to help they always want to help and its before they can really understand any kind of holy book, to me religion muddles in good peoples actions and somehow religion gets the credit for them. I mean are these people doing it out of love or are they doing it like how the prisoners have to clean up garbage along the road (its good the garbage is getting picked up, and the prisoners get outside, but none of the above really to me presents a good person). There are actions that benefit society or parts of society that all people do, I think it can give you security and more of a need to want to do good, but in the end it is you. So can religion produce positives for society yes but without it you would still do it, and those that are only doing it for religion chances are those people are also very active in the negatives of the dogma, but thats just my 2 cents.

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31-08-2012, 09:41 AM
RE: Christianity isn't all bad
Thank you for this thread Smile

And yes, religion can be good. Religion does a lot of stuff for people all around the world regardless of belief, location, or race.

However...

As others pointed out... it can be used for evil.

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31-08-2012, 09:43 AM
RE: Christianity isn't all bad
(31-08-2012 09:41 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Thank you for this thread Smile

And yes, religion can be good. Religion does a lot of stuff for people all around the world regardless of belief, location, or race.

However...

As others pointed out... it can be used for evil.

Tell me more, please.

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31-08-2012, 09:49 AM
RE: Christianity isn't all bad
(31-08-2012 09:41 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  However...

As others pointed out... it can be used for evil.
Such as deluding billions of people? Consider

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31-08-2012, 10:32 AM
RE: Christianity isn't all bad
most (if not all) of the limited good that religion provides can be achieved without the dogma and ignorance religion requires.
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31-08-2012, 10:55 AM
RE: Christianity isn't all bad
No, it's only mostly bad.

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31-08-2012, 11:08 AM (This post was last modified: 02-09-2012 04:34 AM by Logica Humano.)
RE: Christianity isn't all bad
(30-08-2012 05:15 PM)hylonome Wrote:  Looking around this forum, I've seen some pretty awful stories linked with Christianity. When people use religion in the wrong way, it can have terrible effects on a person's life and on the person themselves. Not for one minute am I doubting that. I do think, though, that religion can have a very positive effect on people. It can give people hope - the drive to carry on. I think that it's not religion that does damage, but people who use religion in the wrong way. I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts on this, so please reply! Smile

P.S. I gotta state that I am from the UK, so this is based on religion as it exists in Europe.

Religion is damaging. It doesn't provide anything that can be provided by secular means. Overall, it is a sociological vestigial appendage of evolution. I would be more inclined to agree with you if I were able to feel the "Christian Love" every apologist raves about.

I am not alone when I say this, but many here are cut off from their own families because they are atheist, including me. Education is disintegrating before our eyes because of it. Religions are used as a motivator and justification for countless wars, genocides, and murders. It is responsible for the multiple dark ages throughout history, for most of the periods of technological retardation throughout the human species. Are there some good things about it? Maybe for the individual. Does that outweigh the negative effects? No.

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31-08-2012, 11:25 AM
RE: Christianity isn't all bad
Here is my thing.
I read the bible to learn new things.
I try not to be a dickface to people because that's the right thing to do.
I believe that yeah, maybe someday, after I die, I'll go somewhere cool.
I don't know what that makes me in your eyes...
some people say I'm just a good, hopeful, dreamer type of person..
others say I'm a Christian.
Yes I lean towards Christianity, but I don't rely on it.
But whatever.
That's me.

"You don't disappoint me.... I think your much braver than you may believe."
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