Christianity on the decline in England & Wales!!
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23-12-2011, 05:45 PM
RE: Christianity on the decline in England & Wales!!
(23-12-2011 05:29 PM)Malleus Wrote:  
(23-12-2011 05:19 PM)Sharks9 Wrote:  
(23-12-2011 04:25 PM)Organon Wrote:  There is one thing that is certain, to me, a good education and religious beliefs do not go hand in hand and as education standards improve, then Christianity will quickly die.
That's just not true. There are people far smarter than you or I who still believe in a God.

You're lying to yourself with that one. The only reason why some smart people kept their beliefs is that they compartmentalize. They are very smart about everything else but very gullible about the god part. While Organon seemed to be overlooking this aspect, he is still generally right. In countries with good standards of education, religion is taking a nose dive.

I agree with Malleus here and would like to take that thought even one step further and use Richard Dawkins' assessment that faith has little to do with intelligence and everything to do with Delusion. My pappy didn't raise no dummy, yet I was a True Believer for 40+ years. I have a few letters I could put after my name to show I was well educated and modestly bright. Why did I become an atheist? It wasn't education. I didn't suddenly receive information about the Bible or God that I didn't have before. Over time, I realized that I had compartmentalized the delusions and contradictions and it was only as these parts of my brain began to be explored without the everyday noise of the church I had always known. Becoming intellectually honest with myself, I had to admit I was not ignorant, I was deluded.

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness Laugh out load
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23-12-2011, 05:46 PM
RE: Christianity on the decline in England & Wales!!
(23-12-2011 05:41 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  If you google it you'll find that most studies find a negative correlation between religiosity and intellect.

I don't know for certain about other countries but I do know that Christianity is on the decline and atheism on the rise over here in the UK, I imagine that it's the same in most Western countries.
But correlation doesn't mean causation.

I think it's hard to tell because a census is only taken every 5 or 10 years in most countries. I know in Canada they took one this past year and are releasing the results sometime in 2012 so I'll see what it's like in my country.

James 1:27
"Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world"

"Atheists express their rage against God although in their view He does not exist." C.S. Lewis
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23-12-2011, 05:59 PM
RE: Christianity on the decline in England & Wales!!
1000 years after Europe's Dark Ages, they're finally using their heads (no offense). So I guess all we Americans have to do is wait another 1000 years, right?

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23-12-2011, 06:32 PM (This post was last modified: 23-12-2011 06:37 PM by Organon.)
RE: Christianity on the decline in England & Wales!!
(23-12-2011 05:19 PM)Sharks9 Wrote:  
(23-12-2011 04:25 PM)Organon Wrote:  There is one thing that is certain, to me, a good education and religious beliefs do not go hand in hand and as education standards improve, then Christianity will quickly die.
That's just not true. There are people far smarter than you or I who still believe in a God.

I'd disagree entirely. No one who believes in a god or gods can be smarter than someone who doesn't.


(23-12-2011 05:59 PM)Science Believer Wrote:  1000 years after Europe's Dark Ages, they're finally using their heads (no offense). So I guess all we Americans have to do is wait another 1000 years, right?

At least! Big Grin

"To think of what the world has suffered from superstition, from religion, from the worship of beast and stone and god, is
almost enough to make one insane."

Robert G. Ingersoll
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23-12-2011, 06:44 PM
RE: Christianity on the decline in England & Wales!!
(23-12-2011 05:46 PM)Sharks9 Wrote:  
(23-12-2011 05:41 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  If you google it you'll find that most studies find a negative correlation between religiosity and intellect.

I don't know for certain about other countries but I do know that Christianity is on the decline and atheism on the rise over here in the UK, I imagine that it's the same in most Western countries.
But correlation doesn't mean causation.

I think it's hard to tell because a census is only taken every 5 or 10 years in most countries. I know in Canada they took one this past year and are releasing the results sometime in 2012 so I'll see what it's like in my country.

I think it's hard to tell because studies don't say what you would like them to. I'm betting my left testicle that you would be quoting exactly the same studies if they revealed the opposite.

Oh, no Hallucinations 4:11 says the 'gilded sheep should be stewed in rat blood' but Morons 5:16 contradicts it. (Chas)

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23-12-2011, 07:29 PM
RE: Christianity on the decline in England & Wales!!
(23-12-2011 06:32 PM)Organon Wrote:  
(23-12-2011 05:19 PM)Sharks9 Wrote:  
(23-12-2011 04:25 PM)Organon Wrote:  There is one thing that is certain, to me, a good education and religious beliefs do not go hand in hand and as education standards improve, then Christianity will quickly die.
That's just not true. There are people far smarter than you or I who still believe in a God.

I'd disagree entirely. No one who believes in a god or gods can be smarter than someone who doesn't.
For the sake of my faith in humanity I hope that you're joking. There's no way that's even remotely true.

You honestly think you're smarter than Descartes, Galileo, Pascal, Tolkien, Lewis, Newton, Mendel, Pasteur, Augustine, etc.?


(23-12-2011 06:44 PM)Malleus Wrote:  
(23-12-2011 05:46 PM)Sharks9 Wrote:  
(23-12-2011 05:41 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  If you google it you'll find that most studies find a negative correlation between religiosity and intellect.

I don't know for certain about other countries but I do know that Christianity is on the decline and atheism on the rise over here in the UK, I imagine that it's the same in most Western countries.
But correlation doesn't mean causation.

I think it's hard to tell because a census is only taken every 5 or 10 years in most countries. I know in Canada they took one this past year and are releasing the results sometime in 2012 so I'll see what it's like in my country.

I think it's hard to tell because studies don't say what you would like them to. I'm betting my left testicle that you would be quoting exactly the same studies if they revealed the opposite.
No doubt I would. I would bet my right testicle you would be challenging them if I did to make sure we see the full story of these studies.

James 1:27
"Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world"

"Atheists express their rage against God although in their view He does not exist." C.S. Lewis
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23-12-2011, 08:14 PM
RE: Christianity on the decline in England & Wales!!
(23-12-2011 07:29 PM)Sharks9 Wrote:  No doubt I would. I would bet my right testicle you would be challenging them if I did to make sure we see the full story of these studies.

I think all studies are open to interpretation to some degree. However, when you have a graph with a clear line showing a negative correlation it's hard to claim it's just a matter of interpretation.

I like the honesty of your post though. I hope you hang around, you seem a decent guy to talk to.

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
Best
Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
Worst
Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
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23-12-2011, 08:20 PM (This post was last modified: 23-12-2011 08:41 PM by Sharks9.)
RE: Christianity on the decline in England & Wales!!
(23-12-2011 08:14 PM)Hughsie Wrote:  
(23-12-2011 07:29 PM)Sharks9 Wrote:  No doubt I would. I would bet my right testicle you would be challenging them if I did to make sure we see the full story of these studies.

I think all studies are open to interpretation to some degree. However, when you have a graph with a clear line showing a negative correlation it's hard to claim it's just a matter of interpretation.

I like the honesty of your post though. I hope you hang around, you seem a decent guy to talk to.
Yea for sure, but I just think religious belief is something too complex to just be ruled by intelligence. Is it a factor? Most likely. Is it the only factor? I highly doubt it.

Why thank you Smile You seem like a nice person too!

(23-12-2011 05:59 PM)Science Believer Wrote:  1000 years after Europe's Dark Ages, they're finally using their heads (no offense). So I guess all we Americans have to do is wait another 1000 years, right?

You know the Dark Ages weren't really that dark in terms of intellectual advancement, right? A lot of modern historians don't even use the term Dark Ages anymore as it's seen to be misleading.

James 1:27
"Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world"

"Atheists express their rage against God although in their view He does not exist." C.S. Lewis
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23-12-2011, 08:48 PM
RE: Christianity on the decline in England & Wales!!
(23-12-2011 08:20 PM)Sharks9 Wrote:  Yea for sure, but I just think religious belief is something too complex to just be ruled by intelligence. Is it a factor? Most likely. Is it the only factor? I highly doubt it.

Why thank you Smile You seem like a nice person too!

Yeah don't get me wrong, I don't think;

stupid people = religious
clever people = atheist

I think there will be several factors and the link between religiosity is and intellect is probably an indirect one. I do think there is some link though.

Best and worst of Ferdinand .....
Best
Ferdinand: We don't really say 'theist' in Alabama. Here, you're either a Christian, or you're from Afghanistan and we fucking hate you.
Worst
Ferdinand: Everyone from British is so, like, fucking retarded.
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24-12-2011, 08:34 PM
RE: Christianity on the decline in England & Wales!!
Agh, if US doesn't get a move on I might be tempted to move to the UK.
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