Christianity's plot
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18-02-2015, 11:17 AM
Christianity's plot
I'm always trying to hone my list of bottom-line objections to Christianity—basically, the reasons I woke up—into a succinct list of bullet points and a line or two of explanation.

I've struggled a bit to come up with something for my No. 1 reason that isn't clunky, but I think I may have it now.

The Turkey City Lexicon is a list of tips and advice for would-be science-fiction writers. It's all "don't," and not "do," and a lot of it is pretty funny.

Here's the one, attributed to SF writer James Blish (1921-1975), I've been pondering:

Idiot Plot: A plot which functions only because all the characters involved are idiots. They behave in a way that suits the author’s convenience, rather than through any rational motivation of their own.

The root formulation of Biblical Christianity is an idiot plot. You know the drill — "Perfect" eternal being creates special creatures, sets up rules, knows they will be violated, punishes all subsequent beings with stain of "sin," waits a couple thousand years before incarnating as one of the sinful beings—except without sin—to waltz through a pre-determined set piece and "sacrifice" itself (though not really) in order to "atone" for the sins it created in the first place. Etc.

God is an idiot. Jesus is, too—though evidently he qualifies as God. Adam and Eve are, bless their hearts, to some extent idiots (or not, given that the serpent seemed to be telling the truth). Subsequent generations of Israelites are complete idiots, constantly violating their wrathful god's dictates despite clear evidence of bad consequences—Einsteinian insanity. Etc.

God's idiot plot.

Thoughts?

God does not work in mysterious ways — he works in ways that are indistinguishable from his non-existence.
Jesus had a pretty rough weekend for your sins.
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18-02-2015, 11:24 AM
RE: Christianity's plot
(18-02-2015 11:17 AM)claywise Wrote:  I'm always trying to hone my list of bottom-line objections to Christianity—basically, the reasons I woke up—into a succinct list of bullet points and a line or two of explanation.

I've struggled a bit to come up with something for my No. 1 reason that isn't clunky, but I think I may have it now.

The Turkey City Lexicon is a list of tips and advice for would-be science-fiction writers. It's all "don't," and not "do," and a lot of it is pretty funny.

Here's the one, attributed to SF writer James Blish (1921-1975), I've been pondering:

Idiot Plot: A plot which functions only because all the characters involved are idiots. They behave in a way that suits the author’s convenience, rather than through any rational motivation of their own.

The root formulation of Biblical Christianity is an idiot plot. You know the drill — "Perfect" eternal being creates special creatures, sets up rules, knows they will be violated, punishes all subsequent beings with stain of "sin," waits a couple thousand years before incarnating as one of the sinful beings—except without sin—to waltz through a pre-determined set piece and "sacrifice" itself (though not really) in order to "atone" for the sins it created in the first place. Etc.

God is an idiot. Jesus is, too—though evidently he qualifies as God. Adam and Eve are, bless their hearts, to some extent idiots (or not, given that the serpent seemed to be telling the truth). Subsequent generations of Israelites are complete idiots, constantly violating their wrathful god's dictates despite clear evidence of bad consequences—Einsteinian insanity. Etc.

God's idiot plot.

Thoughts?

Pretty much true.

Atheists on average are more educated on religion than believers, and on average are of higher intelligence, which when you think about it, shouldn't be surprising. In my experience and from my observations, religion is embraced by many different types of people for many different reasons. let’s look at a few categories shall we?

1) They were brought up in a religious atmosphere/family so it is ingrained in their way of life, and they have either fully embraced it because to not do so would get one ostracized from their family, friends, community, OR they are too scared to think otherwise because unholy thoughts are the devil's work.

2) They are elderly, and the elderly are naturally scared of their inevitable demise and turn to the church for comfort. The church LOVES this as they are the bread and butter of the offering plates...fear is a great industry in america.

3) They are simply gullible..ever heard the old adage, the stupid and their money are soon parted?...yeah, kind of goes along with that.

4) They are uneducated, and do not know any better, because they get their belief system from reverend Johnson who cherry picks phrases out the bible to drive home his agenda that day...the faithful wave the bible and yet few have actually read it.

thankfully it is swirling ever faster around the toilet on its way down, while atheism is on a rapid rise worldwide.

Religions are losing members - "The number of Americans who do not identify with any religion continues to grow at a rapid pace. One-fifth of the U.S. public – and a third of adults under 30 – are religiously unaffiliated today, the highest percentages ever in Pew Research Center polling. The challenge to Christianity in the U.S. does not come from other religions but rather from a rejection of all forms of organized religion. The “Nones” (no stated religious preference, atheist, or agnostic) continue to grow, from 8.2% in 1990, to 14.1% in 2001, to 15.0% in 2008, to over 21% in 2012. 34% off all US adults under 30 are unaffiliated."

University of Arizona and Northwestern University recent study projects the extinction of religion in Australia, Austria, the Czech Republic, Canada, Finland, Ireland, New Zealand, the Netherlands and Switzerland. They will be entirely comprised of non-believers. The study also found that "Americans without affiliation comprise the only religious group growing in all 50 states." Religions is declining because of the increase in choice, education, information, bad press, the idea that it is useless or counterproductive and the idea that its fundamental principles are illogical."

Is religion dying? By Diana Butler Bass - “In the last dozen years, American religious institutions have undergone a myriad of crises--abuse scandals, conflicts, schism, and partisan political entanglement, to name a few--resulting in a great religious recession. Poll after poll reveals that organized religions --mainline Protestant, evangelical, Roman Catholic, and Jewish --are in varying states of disarray and decline. Sadness, even doom, has gripped many congregations, as the formerly faithful disaffiliate, and those who remain struggle to pay clergy and fix leaky roofs. The unaffiliated and atheists have been rising for thirty years.”

Atheism on the rise around the globe - "According to a new poll, religiosity worldwide is declining while more people say they are atheists. In the United States, a growing number consider themselves non-believers.

Atheism is on the rise in the United States and elsewhere while religiosity is declining, according to a new worldwide poll. “The Global Index of Religiosity and Atheism,” conducted by WIN-Gallup International headquartered in Switzerland, found that the number of Americans who say they are “religious” dropped from 73 percent in 2005 – when the poll was last conducted – to 60 percent. And 33 percent of the people polled said that they don’t consider themselves as a “religious person."

Drooling

"Belief is so often the death of reason" - Qyburn, Game of Thrones

"The Christian community continues to exist because the conclusions of the critical study of the Bible are largely withheld from them." -Hans Conzelmann (1915-1989)
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18-02-2015, 12:42 PM
RE: Christianity's plot
(18-02-2015 11:17 AM)claywise Wrote:  I'm always trying to hone my list of bottom-line objections to Christianity—basically, the reasons I woke up—into a succinct list of bullet points and a line or two of explanation.

I've struggled a bit to come up with something for my No. 1 reason that isn't clunky, but I think I may have it now.

The Turkey City Lexicon is a list of tips and advice for would-be science-fiction writers. It's all "don't," and not "do," and a lot of it is pretty funny.

Here's the one, attributed to SF writer James Blish (1921-1975), I've been pondering:

Idiot Plot: A plot which functions only because all the characters involved are idiots. They behave in a way that suits the author’s convenience, rather than through any rational motivation of their own.

The root formulation of Biblical Christianity is an idiot plot. You know the drill — "Perfect" eternal being creates special creatures, sets up rules, knows they will be violated, punishes all subsequent beings with stain of "sin," waits a couple thousand years before incarnating as one of the sinful beings—except without sin—to waltz through a pre-determined set piece and "sacrifice" itself (though not really) in order to "atone" for the sins it created in the first place. Etc.

God is an idiot. Jesus is, too—though evidently he qualifies as God. Adam and Eve are, bless their hearts, to some extent idiots (or not, given that the serpent seemed to be telling the truth). Subsequent generations of Israelites are complete idiots, constantly violating their wrathful god's dictates despite clear evidence of bad consequences—Einsteinian insanity. Etc.

God's idiot plot.

Thoughts?

Yes, and let's not forget the Noahtic flood story. God is a total idiot at several different levels.

1. Why a flood instead of a reverse rapture or mass heart attack? God is an idiot.
2. Why do this when it won't even solve the problem of "sin" and you know it won't? God's an idiot.
3. Why did you even create this rebellious species to begin with, and did this after the rebellion of Lucifer? God is an idiot.

Then we move on to the Tower of Babel, god was scared that we would reach heaven with a tower that tall. Facepalm

Then we move on to Moses, it would've taken them a week to walk to the promised land, but 40 years with god's leadership.
Oh and god gave such stupendous wisdom in his commandments like don't kill each other and don't work on the Sabbath, because if an "omnipotent" god gets tired and rests, you should too- under penalty of death! Facepalm

Gods derive their power from post-hoc rationalizations. -The Inquisition

Using the supernatural to explain events in your life is a failure of the intellect to comprehend the world around you. -The Inquisition
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19-02-2015, 09:06 AM
RE: Christianity's plot
Welcome.

I'm an idiot.

[Image: dog-shaking.gif]
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19-02-2015, 09:37 AM
RE: Christianity's plot
Hmm, Claywise has been here a bit... maybe a Mod can move this to an appropriate section... something to do with goofy old theism and atheism, perhaps? Shy

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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19-02-2015, 09:49 AM
RE: Christianity's plot
I don't know that being theist (whatever flavor) has to do with any particular thing. Sometimes decently educated folk are simply raised within a slightly insular culture and may have no idea there is even an alternative to the theistic mindset. That seems to be why some seem to find it so difficult to break free. They may see it as a personal affront to their fairly innocent, well enjoyed upbringing so, why rock the boat? They don't question because no one ever told them they could. Shy

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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19-02-2015, 10:02 AM
RE: Christianity's plot
(19-02-2015 09:37 AM)kim Wrote:  Hmm, Claywise has been here a bit... maybe a Mod can move this to an appropriate section... something to do with goofy old theism and atheism, perhaps? Shy

"We are here to serve."

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19-02-2015, 10:08 AM
RE: Christianity's plot
(19-02-2015 09:06 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  Welcome.

I'm an idiot.

Latin: idiota- ignorant person
Greek: idiotes- private person, layman, ignorant person
-- from idios - own, private.

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein
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19-02-2015, 10:15 AM
RE: Christianity's plot
Here is mine. Belief in God requires that you place your standard of the good in another realm outside of your reach and that you must place your own self as the standard of evil. This, to me, is the most evil thing to teach a being with such potential for greatness as Humans beings have. To teach it to children is horrible. Children should be taught to think rationally and to strive for the best within them, not told that they are guilty from the moment they are born and that no matter what they do it will not be good unless they believe in an imaginary being in the sky.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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19-02-2015, 10:56 AM
RE: Christianity's plot
(19-02-2015 10:02 AM)DLJ Wrote:  
(19-02-2015 09:37 AM)kim Wrote:  Hmm, Claywise has been here a bit... maybe a Mod can move this to an appropriate section... something to do with goofy old theism and atheism, perhaps? Shy

"We are here to serve. NO GOD"

changed the wording Big Grin
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