Christianity with no afterlife
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
25-02-2015, 11:13 AM
Christianity with no afterlife
The last church I was in didn't have an immediate afterlife. It believed upon death, the soul is stored and you basically sleep. After the end times, everyone is resurrected and the heathens are given a second chance.

Hell was only for Satan and fallen angels (demons). Humans who refused to follow God and Jesus were simply allowed to die a second, permanent time. No torture, no flaying of flesh, just permanent death.

They were otherwise batshit insane. Smile
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Clockwork's post
25-02-2015, 12:15 PM (This post was last modified: 25-02-2015 05:35 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Christianity with no afterlife
(25-02-2015 10:25 AM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  
(24-02-2015 08:20 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  "Christianity with no afterlife" ?
It would just be going back to it's roots. St. Paul thought only the saved were immortal.
Corinthians 5:3 : "For this corruptible must put on in-corruption, and this mortal must put on immortality."
The Jews did not believe in immortality the way we think of it, (as any scholar knows).

Have you considered that since the Jewish people consider conversion to Christianity a grievous error, that since the time of Christ they've leaned more to "no afterlife" despite a) statements re: the afterlife in Tanach b) statements re: the afterlife by the Pharisees and Saducees as recorded in the debates of the New Testament c) statements re: the afterlife in Talmud, Kabbalah, Zohar, etc.?

I'm saying there is an agenda there, which only shows a confirmatory bias.

The only "agenda" apparently is an attempt to slap simplistic modern Fundie interpretations onto Ancient (complex evolving) History.
They might NOW think that about conversion, I really don't know, but actually you have no clue WHAT they thought of "conversion" (or being a member of the sub-sect of JEWS called "The Way"..which later started calling themselves "Christians") back then. Doing your "Presentist Fallacy" you are assuming Jews thought then, what some do now. For at least 100 years (In the First Century), Christians REMAINED Jews, and were always Jews. They did not "convert". It got so bad the High Priest required the synagogues to read the Expulsion Curses. By the time the Pharisees and other groups had split up into camps, Jewish Apocalypticism was well developed, and the concept of afterlife" had CHANGED radically in the couple hundred years before (supposedly) your Christ came on the scene. However, in the year 400 St. John Chrysostom in his Christmas sermon was STILL telling Christians in his city, (Constantinople), to STOP going to the synagogue. We have a copy of that sermon.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
25-02-2015, 12:41 PM
RE: Christianity with no afterlife
(24-02-2015 01:36 PM)The Q Continuum Wrote:  It would die the death! The Bible talks about the injustices of this world that are only fully corrected in the next. If Stalin is forgiven in the next world, what a merciful God! If Stalin suffers for snuffing millions of lives and oppressing 100 million others, what a righteous God!

What a perfect cop-out! Forgiveness for crimes- what a great god; suffering for same crimes - what a great god. I said it before but I'll say it again, you are insane there Q.

“Truth does not demand belief. Scientists do not join hands every Sunday, singing, yes, gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! I believe in my heart that what goes up, up, up, must come down, down, down. Amen! If they did, we would think they were pretty insecure about it.”
— Dan Barker —
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 1 user Likes Timber1025's post
25-02-2015, 02:00 PM
RE: Christianity with no afterlife
(25-02-2015 11:13 AM)Clockwork Wrote:  They were otherwise batshit insane. Smile

I think the word "otherwise" in this sentence is unnecessary and somewhat misleading.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like RobbyPants's post
25-02-2015, 02:11 PM
RE: Christianity with no afterlife
(25-02-2015 09:54 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  Sure, concepts like heaven have an appeal. Just like the idea than you could masterbate without feeling guilty about it might make atheism appealing for some.

And, just like I mentioned how disturbingly common it is for people to throw hell in non-Christians faces, it is also disturbingly common for many Christians to assume that non-believers just want to sin. It's quite a common Christian meme to write off dissenting points of view.


(25-02-2015 09:54 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  But I don't think these concepts are really keeping anyone in the pews,
...
While heaven or hell are taken as a given by most christians, I don't thing they play any significant role in keeping people in the pews.

I didn't say "keep people in the pews". That's entirely different than keeping people believing. There are a lot of people who believe but don't attend church.


(25-02-2015 09:54 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  I think religion sustains itself by its worldly offerings, community, fellowship, a perception of life as meaningful, as part of something greater, concepts such as renewal, forgiveness, grace, a God who loves them etc...

Of course, concepts like forgiveness and grace are dependent on assuming one needs to be forgiven in the first place. Notions of community or being part of bigger things can be met secularly. I'm not sure what "renewal" is even really supposed to mean, irrespective of assuming one is corrupted in the first place. Every one of those things could be lumped into one of two categories:

1) Things that could be found outside of religion.

2) Things that are good if you first accept (unproven) assumptions that things are bad and need to be fixed.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
[+] 2 users Like RobbyPants's post
25-02-2015, 04:24 PM
RE: Christianity with no afterlife
(25-02-2015 02:00 PM)RobbyPants Wrote:  
(25-02-2015 11:13 AM)Clockwork Wrote:  They were otherwise batshit insane. Smile

I think the word "otherwise" in this sentence is unnecessary and somewhat misleading.
It was a poor attempt at sarcasm.

I blame the migraine for my failure.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
25-02-2015, 05:25 PM
RE: Christianity with no afterlife
(25-02-2015 11:13 AM)Clockwork Wrote:  The last church I was in didn't have an immediate afterlife. It believed upon death, the soul is stored and you basically sleep. After the end times, everyone is resurrected and the heathens are given a second chance.

Hell was only for Satan and fallen angels (demons). Humans who refused to follow God and Jesus were simply allowed to die a second, permanent time. No torture, no flaying of flesh, just permanent death.

They were otherwise batshit insane. Smile

Christadelphian?

#sigh
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
25-02-2015, 05:27 PM
RE: Christianity with no afterlife
(25-02-2015 11:09 AM)Chas Wrote:  Belief in an afterlife requires a dualistic meaning for 'soul' or consciousness.

Think that's right. The converse however is not.

#sigh
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
25-02-2015, 05:32 PM
RE: Christianity with no afterlife
(24-02-2015 10:51 AM)GirlyMan Wrote:  
(24-02-2015 10:30 AM)TarzanSmith Wrote:  Also I think there are some Christian sects which believe that everyone goes to heaven.

Universal reconciliation.
Although it's questionable whether these are then "Christian" other than superficially.

I attend a Unitarian/Universalist church occasionally which is the merger of two former denominations that do not believe in hell or the trinity. The membership is mostly atheists and agnostics and a smattering of super-liberal theists. They have no creed or doctrinal statement and no litmus test for membership. The first Sunday "message" I heard was an overview of atheism vs agnosticism. As an atheist, I go to the place for social reasons only. I don't know how to call all that "Christian". It's more of a social / political club than anything.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
25-02-2015, 05:40 PM
RE: Christianity with no afterlife
(24-02-2015 02:27 PM)Blackout Wrote:  ... if there was no heaven and hell I think Christianity would never have been so successful for so long in the first place - Hell scares people, and heaven is a worthy moral goal, if we take away these concepts the afterlife vanishes as well, and as such there is no inherent meaning for life because regardless of what you do you'll end up in the same state (after you die), and since god is controlling you, might as well do what you please.

So yes, there would be fewer Christians because you are speculating on the non-existence of one of the biggest pillars of Christianity (probably the third biggest next to Jesus and god)
That's my thought. Christianity is a set of self-reinforcing memes that have evolved to work together. Remove any one key sub-meme and the whole thing is greatly weakened.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: