Christians Claim Big Bang as Evidence for God
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26-03-2014, 10:22 AM
Christians Claim Big Bang as Evidence for God
Here's the blog that a family member sent me.

Quote:Opinion by Leslie A. Wickmanspecial to CNN

(CNN) The remarkable discovery, announced this week, of ripples in the space-time fabric of the universe rocked the world of science – and the world of religion.

Touted as evidence for inflation (a faster-than-the-speed-of-light expansion of our universe), the new discovery of traces of gravity waves affirms scientific concepts in the fields of cosmology, general relativity, and particle physics.

The new discovery also has significant implications for the Judeo-Christian worldview, offering strong support for biblical beliefs.

This was sent to me via text, so here's the conversation:
FM=Family Member
FM Wrote:Hey buddy. Tell me what your thoughts are here when you can.
http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2014/03/20...of-of-god/

Ryan Wrote:My thoughts on the article:
I have to admit, the Christians jumped on the science bandwagon faster than I thought, but I knew this would happen eventually. The article you sent me is not news, it's an opinionated blog. First statement is:
"Opinion by Leslie A. Wickman, special to CNN"

This argument is nothing new. It's called the "Anthropic Principle". This is the original argument I mentioned that the "Fine-tuning" argument comes from. My rebuttles are the same.**
There is literally a list of things wrong in that article, but I'll just mention the highlights:
1. Let's look at the logic that is used here:
"The universe has a beginning" ->
"Everything that began has to have a cause" ->
"Since the universe began, it must have a cause" ->
"therefore, god created the universe"
See the problem? Besides the "Watchmaker fallacy" and "Begging the question", let's just say it's right (it's not for facetious logic I just stated). How do you come to the conclusion that YOUR god created the universe? Every religion claims that their god created the universe. So, who's to say it wasn't Onyame? Allah? Zues? The Flying Spaghetti Monster?
2. No one knows who wrote genesis. Apologetics claim it's just poetry, while fundamentalists claim it as truth. Well, it is FACT that it CANNOT be true. It goes against science (besides also contradicting itself [Genesis 1 vs Genesis 2]), so if you take it as poetry, then you can not, in all honesty, cherry pick scriptures and present them as proof. Doesn't work that way.
3. If God created the universe for us, then why is (literally) over 99% of it deadly to humans? If he created it just for us, why did he make it so big? It's unnecessary. One must draw the conclusion that God is trolling us or is just not very good at what he does.
Now, if you replace god with chance, then everything makes sense. Since we are an infinitely small piece of the universe, it makes perfect sense that everything was NOT made for us, rather, we were "made" for it [only earth at that, which over 90% is still uninhabitable by humans].
4. Confirmation bias. You start with the solution and work backwards to the question. For example: "I believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Since all planets are shaped like meatballs, he must exist. Also, since you can't disprove he didn't create the universe, he must have. Therefore, he is the only true religion."
Same thing applies here, but with Jesus and the new scientific discovery. It essentially boils down to "You can't prove me wrong, therefore I'm right." Try pulling that in court...
----
If you'd like more examples, I'd have no problem to keep going.
Note: Yes I really did write all this, with Android Swypeing this whole message took me a few minutes to type.
**Reference to past debate with his reverend friend who used the fine-tuning argument [via email about two weeks ago; still awaiting reply].


Ryan Wrote:Did you get everything I said? Any questions?

FM Wrote:Yes. Im reading it. It was a lot to read. Lol

Ryan Wrote:Sorry, would've been better as an email. Though, that is the short version...

FM Wrote:Which god has claimed that he created the heavens and the earth besides God?

I don't remember any

I remember gods of rain thunder and specific things only. I will try to look up a god that claimed to be the creator of everything
Note: Three combined messages.

Ryan Wrote:I don't have time to look up every god that claimed to have created humanity, the universe, heaven, etc...
Just look up ancient mythology. Every ancient civilization has one. Some gods off the top of my head are: Erebus, Brahma, Onyame, Pangu, and Ometeotl

Besides that, you're asking the wrong question. If someone in a doctor's coat came up to you and said he was a doctor, would you believe him? What if he asked you to do something questionable? Would you just follow his commands?
I sure hope not. You'd ask for identification. Claiming something doesn't make it fact. If the self professed doctor replied "well prove I'm not a doctor" would you accept that as identification? **
Once again, I sure hope not.
Note: Two combined messages.
**He works at the same hospital I do.


**End of Conversation**
What do you guys think? Anything to add to/correct about my arguments/logic/verbage? Just looking for critiques.

Other than that, what are your opinions on the article?

[Image: a1Ay5GG_460sa_v1.gif]

If your God can't be bothered to personally reveal himself to me, then I can't be bothered to worship him.
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26-03-2014, 11:32 AM
RE: Christians Claim Big Bang as Evidence for God
I think you pretty well covered the main problems with this old argument.

My favorite part of the article was this part (that you also picked up on):
Quote:The creation message in Genesis tells us that God created a special place for humans to live and thrive and be in communion with him; that God wants a relationship with us, and makes provisions for us to have fellowship with him, even after we turn away from him.

Well starting with the big bang, creating this enormous universe, and waiting 13.8 billion years until our solar system and planet form and we finally evolve into existence seems like a REALLY inefficient way for an omnipotent, omniscient deity to get to this desired end.

And the author worked on the space station and Hubble telescope projects... Cognitive dissonance in action...
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26-03-2014, 11:44 AM
RE: Christians Claim Big Bang as Evidence for God
(26-03-2014 11:32 AM)meremortal Wrote:  I think you pretty well covered the main problems with this old argument.

My favorite part of the article was this part (that you also picked up on):
Quote:The creation message in Genesis tells us that God created a special place for humans to live and thrive and be in communion with him; that God wants a relationship with us, and makes provisions for us to have fellowship with him, even after we turn away from him.

Well starting with the big bang, creating this enormous universe, and waiting 13.8 billion years until our solar system and planet form and we finally evolve into existence seems like a REALLY inefficient way for an omnipotent, omniscient deity to get to this desired end.

And the author worked on the space station and Hubble telescope projects... Cognitive dissonance in action...

Exactly, it's the little things that add up.

Also, I didn't look up the author, but I really doubt [or at least hope] she did not work on anything space related...

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If your God can't be bothered to personally reveal himself to me, then I can't be bothered to worship him.
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