Christians Claim Big Bang
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22-03-2014, 09:19 PM
RE: Christians Claim Big Bang
(22-03-2014 07:52 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  I simply asked why would the existence of churches and the hospitals established by them not be seen as evidence for God's involvement in the universe?
Because it isn't evidence at all. People invented gods as well as churches. People established hospitals too. No god had anything to do with those. How does "the existence of churches and hospitals established by them" refute what I just said in the slightest? It must in order to stand as any evidence at all.

"Religion has caused more misery to all of mankind in every stage of human history than any other single idea." --Madalyn Murray O'Hair
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22-03-2014, 09:25 PM
RE: Christians Claim Big Bang
(22-03-2014 09:19 PM)Impulse Wrote:  
(22-03-2014 07:52 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  I simply asked why would the existence of churches and the hospitals established by them not be seen as evidence for God's involvement in the universe?
Because it isn't evidence at all. People invented gods as well as churches. People established hospitals too. No god had anything to do with those. How does "the existence of churches and hospitals established by them" refute what I just said in the slightest? It must in order to stand as any evidence at all.

Let's see:

Gawd invented hospitals to save his children from the viruses, bacteria, diseases and maladies that he created and caused.

Sounds legit. Thumbsup

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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22-03-2014, 09:41 PM (This post was last modified: 22-03-2014 10:03 PM by Charis.)
RE: Christians Claim Big Bang
Jeremy, the reason DLJ added "the belief in" into your statement was because the establishment of churches and hospitals in the names of their respective gods is only evidence of a belief in these gods held by a group of people... it's not evidence for the existence of the god him/her/itself.

Let's look at Islam, for instance. There are hospitals built and mosques built by the Muslims. These are not evidence for Allah's involvement in the universe. These mosques and hospitals can only really be evidence for the Muslims' *belief in* the existence of Allah and *their belief in* what is in the Qu'ran and the Hadiths. I'm sure it will be a cold day in Hell before you look at all these mosques and hospitals and think to yourself,"Well gee whiz, there's evidence for Allah over the Biblical Jesus after all!" No, you wouldn't say that, mainly because (I hope) you know that it doesn't work that way.

Also, there are these Buddhist hospitals and Buddhist temples and associations near NYC. The fact of their establishment does not provide evidence for Buddhism, but it does demonstrate that there are people who hold *a belief in* Buddhism.


**Edited for grammar and for spelling DLJ's name wrong**
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22-03-2014, 09:45 PM
RE: Christians Claim Big Bang
(22-03-2014 09:41 PM)Charis Wrote:  Jeremy, the reason DLC added "the belief in" into your statement was because the establishment of churches and hospitals in the names of their respective gods is only evidence of their belief in these gods... it's not evidence for the existence of the god him/her/itself.

Let's look at Islam, for instance. There are hospitals built and mosques built by the Muslims. These are not evidence for the existence of Allah. These mosques and hospitals can only really be evidence for *the belief in* the existence of Allah and *their belief in* what is in the Qu'ran and the Hadiths.

Also, there are these Buddhist hospitals and Buddhist temples and associations near NYC. The fact of their establishment does not provide evidence for Buddhism but for the fact that there are people who hold *a belief in* Buddhism.

Yep.

Belief in something existing =/= that thing actually existing.

This is why nobody will debate Walker, if he's so ignorant as to fail to understand this, then there is nothing to be learned by engaging with him.

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22-03-2014, 09:58 PM
RE: Christians Claim Big Bang
(22-03-2014 09:41 PM)Charis Wrote:  Jeremy, the reason DLC added "the belief in" into your statement was
...
(22-03-2014 09:45 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  ...
Belief in something existing =/= that thing actually existing.

This is why nobody will debate Walker, if he's so ignorant as to fail to understand this, then there is nothing to be learned by engaging with him.

Hmmm. Consider

I'm crediting our new JEW-boy with more wit than that.

I don't think he needed it spelled out for him.

Talking of which, Charis, who the fuck is DLC? Angry

Perhaps we have a seasoned debater here with whom we can spar in a polite and civilised manner.
I'm detected some wry humour, too, so I'm hoping he can dodge Taqqy's poo-slinging and stick around long enough to give us something original to learn from.

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22-03-2014, 10:02 PM
RE: Christians Claim Big Bang
(22-03-2014 09:41 PM)Charis Wrote:  Also, there are these Buddhist hospitals and Buddhist temples and associations near NYC. The fact of their establishment does not provide evidence for Buddhism, but it does demonstrate that there are people who hold *a belief in* Buddhism.

And, oh, GEE!!!!!! Buddhists are ATHEISTS!

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


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You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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22-03-2014, 10:04 PM
RE: Christians Claim Big Bang
(22-03-2014 09:58 PM)DLJ Wrote:  
(22-03-2014 09:41 PM)Charis Wrote:  Jeremy, the reason DLC added "the belief in" into your statement was
...
(22-03-2014 09:45 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:  ...
Belief in something existing =/= that thing actually existing.

This is why nobody will debate Walker, if he's so ignorant as to fail to understand this, then there is nothing to be learned by engaging with him.

Hmmm. Consider

I'm crediting our new JEW-boy with more wit than that.

I don't think he needed it spelled out for him.

Talking of which, Charis, who the fuck is DLC? Angry

Perhaps we have a seasoned debater here with whom we can spar in a polite and civilised manner.
I'm detected some wry humour, too, so I'm hoping he can dodge Taqqy's poo-slinging and stick around long enough to give us something original to learn from.

LoL! sorry bout that! fixt.
I actually kinda like Jeremy so far.
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22-03-2014, 10:07 PM
RE: Christians Claim Big Bang
(22-03-2014 09:58 PM)DLJ Wrote:  Sadcryface2 I'm detected some wry humour, too, Sadcryface2 so I'm hoping he can dodge Taqqy's poo-slinging Sadcryface2 and stick around long enough to Sadcryface2 give us something original to learn from. Sadcryface2

Yes, you just love having idiot theist trolls stinking the place up spewing the same old bullshit "arguments". Pathetic.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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22-03-2014, 10:14 PM
RE: Christians Claim Big Bang
(22-03-2014 10:07 PM)Taqiyya Mockingbird Wrote:  
(22-03-2014 09:58 PM)DLJ Wrote:  Sadcryface2 I'm detected some wry humour, too, Sadcryface2 so I'm hoping he can dodge Taqqy's poo-slinging Sadcryface2 and stick around long enough to Sadcryface2 give us something original to learn from. Sadcryface2

Yes, you just love having idiot theist trolls stinking the place up spewing the same old bullshit "arguments". Pathetic.

Jeremy seems fairly straight-forward at least. And not drive-by. And not a Miss Meng.
I tend to think he's just a Theist who has come for some debate/sparring. But that's just me. I guess I'd have an issue if he was just asking mysterious loaded questions, misrepresenting his position for a good bait 'n' switch, RP'ing about adjusting spectacles and smiling at the forum whilst drinking his tea, tossing the gospel grenades all over the place, or being a general Heywood.
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22-03-2014, 10:42 PM
RE: Christians Claim Big Bang
(22-03-2014 10:14 PM)Charis Wrote:  Jeremy seems fairly straight-forward at least.
How he delivers the same tired old bullshit (along with a heaping helping of smug delusions that we just aren't smart/pious/honest enough to see tales"truth" of his fairy , etc.) as the last ten zillion creatard trolls doesn't make any difference. Same bag of shit, different bow.

It's Special Pleadings all the way down!


Magic Talking Snakes STFU -- revenantx77


You can't have your special pleading and eat it too. -- WillHop
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