Christians Move To EXECUTE Women For Abortions
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30-01-2017, 01:01 PM
RE: Christians Move To EXECUTE Women For Abortions
(30-01-2017 01:42 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(29-01-2017 03:51 PM)Shai Hulud Wrote:  Not to keep beating a dead horse on what it should mean to actually be pro-life, but this image popped up in my feed and thought it was worth posting here (granted, I'm making assumptions about Phu Cat's view of refugees):
[Image: 2DvDMUj.png?1]

I'm confused about the "you'll have to stop pretending your concerns are religious" bit. Religions are *all about* killing the infidel and controlling the women. I think I'd rather say "you'll have to admit you're a fucking arsehole who puts patriachal bullshit and xenophobia in a dress and funny hat and uses that as an excuse that it's OK".

Indeed.

Let's not forget that the refugees currently fleeing from Syria (I dunno if that's who that girl in that picture is, but it's the big refugee crisis at present)... are fleeing from the religious.
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02-02-2017, 08:44 PM
RE: Christians Move To EXECUTE Women For Abortions
(30-01-2017 01:26 AM)Reltzik Wrote:  Hey now, if that's a male... fetus, zygote, whatever stage that's at... and a female refugee, then there's a lot of (interpretations of) religions where that's a perfectly legit religious belief.
How depressingly true.

(30-01-2017 01:42 AM)morondog Wrote:  
(29-01-2017 03:51 PM)Shai Hulud Wrote:  Not to keep beating a dead horse on what it should mean to actually be pro-life, but this image popped up in my feed and thought it was worth posting here (granted, I'm making assumptions about Phu Cat's view of refugees):
[Image: 2DvDMUj.png?1]

I'm confused about the "you'll have to stop pretending your concerns are religious" bit. Religions are *all about* killing the infidel and controlling the women. I think I'd rather say "you'll have to admit you're a fucking arsehole who puts patriachal bullshit and xenophobia in a dress and funny hat and uses that as an excuse that it's OK".

You could always take it up with the atheist instagram account that made it? Though I do <3 your xenophobia line and fucking arsehole bit. Especially after checking Facebook and seeing a couple of my fellow Catholics and a slew of Evangelicals being all, "Dem immigrants iz comin' to kill us all. Dem kids are all jihadists by age six".

Need to think of a witty signature.
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02-02-2017, 09:45 PM
RE: Christians Move To EXECUTE Women For Abortions
So glad not to have been born in America.

NOTE: Member, Tomasia uses this site to slander other individuals. He then later proclaims it a joke, but not in public.
I will call him a liar and a dog here and now.
Banjo.
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02-02-2017, 09:50 PM
RE: Christians Move To EXECUTE Women For Abortions
This is the logical extension of calling abortion "murder."

Let them agitate for it ... Let's see how many more folks they can drive away.
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02-02-2017, 11:31 PM
Christians Move To EXECUTE Women For Abortions
Of course I'm sure they don't realize their Christian bibles don't even punish abortion or such fetus killing as equal to murder but screw gods word. . . We gotta save the lives for god.

"Allow there to be a spectrum in all that you see" - Neil Degrasse Tyson
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03-02-2017, 03:52 PM
RE: Christians Move To EXECUTE Women For Abortions
You make no sense what so ever. You'll fight to your death to protect the right to kill a fetus, then turn around and again fight to your death to protect the life of a convicted murderer that's been sentenced to death. Where's the logic in that?



PC
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03-02-2017, 04:00 PM
RE: Christians Move To EXECUTE Women For Abortions
(03-02-2017 03:52 PM)Phu Cat Wrote:  You make no sense what so ever. You'll fight to your death to protect the right to kill a fetus, then turn around and again fight to your death to protect the life of a convicted murderer that's been sentenced to death. Where's the logic in that?



PC

One is a person and one is not. It's different. You're not going to change anyone's mind on that because you seem to lack adequate material to effectively persuade us.

If you don't want to kill your fetus, then don't. No one gives a shit.
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03-02-2017, 04:43 PM
RE: Christians Move To EXECUTE Women For Abortions
(02-02-2017 11:31 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  Of course I'm sure they don't realize their Christian bibles don't even punish abortion or such fetus killing as equal to murder but screw gods word. . . We gotta save the lives for god.

also aren't their some Christians saying kids dying automatically guarantees them a ticket to heaven ?
its not like unborn kids would be treated any differently
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04-02-2017, 01:55 AM (This post was last modified: 04-02-2017 02:00 AM by Reltzik.)
RE: Christians Move To EXECUTE Women For Abortions
Okay, you know what?

Let's nail this down here.

Let us assume, for the sake of argument, that I agreed that abortion is a bad thing. WHAT NEXT?

Let's talk comprehensive sex education. As in, not abstinence-only. As in, teaching teens how to use condoms (among other things).

Study after study after study shows that comprehensive sex education decreases unwanted pregnancies, teen pregnancies, and STI transmission in the societies that employ it. Condom availability alone might not help, but comprehensive sex-ed does. Side-by-side "natural experiment" comparisons, state-by-state or country-by-country, back this up. Some people might try to logic out something along the lines of "but they'll have sex more so it makes all these things worse", but the actual numbers on the ground don't play out like that. We can actually look at reality to see how this work, rather than staring at our navels.

Abstinence-only sex-ed, on the other hand, does not bring these numbers down. It delays onset of sexual activity by several months, but does not greatly reduce the amount of sex once it begins, and the sex people do have is far more likely to result in unplanned pregnancies and STI transmission.

With unwanted pregnancy and teen pregnancy (often the two overlap) comes more abortions. So if you find some way of bringing down unwanted pregnancy and teen pregnancies, you'll bring down the number of abortions too. The only problem... for some people... is that this requires encouraging condom use.

This is a problem because...

... because...

... fuck if I know. Because religion, obviously, but fuck if I know beyond that. Oman was clearly about failing to impregnate one's brother-in-law's widow with one's brother's seed... somehow... and doesn't mean jack with regard to condom use, so don't give me that crap. It's not like condoms are making them have sex within wedlock any more or less, either. So what the hell?

But okay, there you have it. That's the dilemma that the data tells us we face. Increase condom use to decrease the abortion rate. Decrease condom use, and increase the abortion rate. MAKE YOUR CHOICE.

If you choose against condoms? Well, like the Catholic Church and the tithe-givers who fund it, that puts you in a bit of a pickle. You're essentially choosing to have more abortions happen. Abortion is horrible! Awful! A blight upon society! The mark of ultimate cultural degradation! But not as bad as rubbers!

Or maybe you can pretend that there isn't an inverse relationship between the two. Deny the science, by which I mean deny reality. Which means you don't really give a damn about what the abortion rate is or whether what you're doing increases or decreases it. Which means you don't actually care about abortions at all. I'm guessing it likely means you care more about expensive, repressive, grand-but-empty public gestures. Ban it harshly and ineffectively, rather than actually do something to fix it in a clever, easier, gentler way. But I'd only be guessing, because that kind of ignore-the-results mentality is so alien to my own that I don't get it at all.

On the other hand, let's say you decide you'd rather have comprehensive sex-ed and increased condom use and decreased abortions? What do you do then?

More specifically, what side do you align with?

Because you don't have a snowball's chance in hell of getting the American pro-life movement on board with that. Not one damn chance.

See, I never came to a conclusion on the morality of abortion. On the one hand, I decided that the determination of whether a fetus counts as a person is a subjective rather than objective claim, a matter of perspective and semantics rather than fact. But on the other hand, I realized it made not one iota of difference.

If I decided that an unborn child was worth defending, I sure as hell wouldn't align myself with the pro-life movement. BECAUSE THEY'RE FUCKING INCOMPETENT.

TOTALLY. FUCKING. INCOMPETENT.

Because dollar-for-dollar, the best way to bring down the abortion rate? Is to fund Planned Parenthood. Yes, they supply abortions. But they ALSO provide family planning, contraceptives, prenatal care, sex-ed, and the similar services that reduce the DEMAND for abortions. And given a choice between providing an abortion, and preventing an undesired pregnancy in the first place, they would rather prevent the pregnancy. They do more to bring down the abortion rate than the pro-life movement can... and they do so without huge government enforcement, harsh fines, imprisonment, ruined lives, single-issue politics, deadlocked legislatures, hijacked court systems, and the like. Oh, and without engaging in terrorist bombings and shootings.

(I might be doing the pro-life movement a disservice. If they're actually about bringing down the abortion rate? Yes, they're total incompetents. But if as I often suspect they're instead about funneling votes into conservative causes and turning conservatives into frothing hate-monkeys sicced on a hated segment of society through high-emotion propaganda? They're geniuses. Either way, fuck'em.)

So if I decide that abortion isn't wrong? I go with the pro-reproductive-choice camp. And if I do decide that it is wrong? I go with the pro-reproductive-choice camp.

SO WHO GIVES A SHIT?

This is your brain on faith.

Anyhow, which is it going to be?

Condoms or abortions?

A kind, gentle approach to bringing down the abortion rate, or harsh bans and criminalization that cost far more time, effort, and money to implement and don't accomplish as much, unless hurting people is something you count as an accomplishment.

While we're at it, stigmatizing unmarried mothers and thus giving them an added social pressure not to have the child and so cover up that they've been having non-marital sex, or providing welcoming, non-judgemental, supportive communities where they feel no stigma at all? BECAUSE ONE OF THOSE MAKES ABORTION MORE LIKELY, AND THE PRO-LIFE MOVEMENT IS SCREWING THAT UP AS WELL.

Fuckingfuckthefuckingincompetentfuckheads.
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04-02-2017, 08:09 PM
RE: Christians Move To EXECUTE Women For Abortions
(03-02-2017 03:52 PM)Phu Cat Wrote:  You make no sense what so ever. You'll fight to your death to protect the right to kill a fetus, then turn around and again fight to your death to protect the life of a convicted murderer that's been sentenced to death. Where's the logic in that?



PC

I think a better question they could pose to you is why you won't defend the life of that convicted murderer with the same zeal as that of the unborn. If all life is holy and sacred and made in the image of God, it shouldn't matter.

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