Christians Move To EXECUTE Women For Abortions
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26-11-2016, 11:47 PM
RE: Christians Move To EXECUTE Women For Abortions
(28-09-2016 05:35 AM)Ace Wrote:  



in other words the pro-life crowd is pro-murder... lets be honest here, no one is surprised by this Dodgy

and its in Florida.... what a surprise Facepalm

I wonder if spontaneous abortions would, then. be treated as manslaughter.

If we believe absurdities, we shall commit atrocities.--Voltaire.

"To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason is like administering medicine to the dead." --Thomas Paine.
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27-11-2016, 03:04 AM
RE: Christians Move To EXECUTE Women For Abortions
(26-11-2016 11:47 PM)666wannabe Wrote:  
(28-09-2016 05:35 AM)Ace Wrote:  



in other words the pro-life crowd is pro-murder... lets be honest here, no one is surprised by this Dodgy

and its in Florida.... what a surprise Facepalm

I wonder if spontaneous abortions would, then. be treated as manslaughter.

Even if they defined a fetus in the most legally-protected, full-human rights manner possible, manslaughter would not qualify.

While manslaughter lacks the "specific intent" element of murder, as in one has to prove it was done deliberately/on purpose, trying to cause the death of a person (and Murder 1 is "with forethought", in most states), it does have what is called a "general intent" clause, and that requires physical control over one's actions or a surrendering of the ability to perform those actions for which you have the capacity (as in the case of inebriated driving).

So, a function over which she never posessed control (her uterus... despite what Congressman Todd Akin still seems to think) would not endanger her to a charge of manslaughter.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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27-11-2016, 06:23 AM
RE: Christians Move To EXECUTE Women For Abortions
(27-11-2016 03:04 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  
(26-11-2016 11:47 PM)666wannabe Wrote:  I wonder if spontaneous abortions would, then. be treated as manslaughter.

Even if they defined a fetus in the most legally-protected, full-human rights manner possible, manslaughter would not qualify.

While manslaughter lacks the "specific intent" element of murder, as in one has to prove it was done deliberately/on purpose, trying to cause the death of a person (and Murder 1 is "with forethought", in most states), it does have what is called a "general intent" clause, and that requires physical control over one's actions or a surrendering of the ability to perform those actions for which you have the capacity (as in the case of inebriated driving).

So, a function over which she never posessed control (her uterus... despite what Congressman Todd Akin still seems to think) would not endanger her to a charge of manslaughter.

That's the problem Rocket, ''they are free to'' misuse this ''surrendering of the ability to perform those actions'' in such a way that is implied that a woman has total control over her ability to preserve the life and give development and birth of her fetus...

At least in Brazil those kind of people are often ready to corrupt law's meanings to fit their agenda...

Which is ironically the same thing they do with the bible...

That which can be destroyed by the truth should be.”
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27-11-2016, 06:28 AM
RE: Christians Move To EXECUTE Women For Abortions
(27-11-2016 06:23 AM)Velvet Wrote:  That's the problem Rocket, ''they are free to'' misuse this ''surrendering of the ability to perform those actions'' in such a way that is implied that a woman has total control over her ability to preserve the life and give development and birth of her fetus...

At least in Brazil those kind of people are often ready to corrupt law's meanings to fit their agenda...

Which is ironically the same thing they do with the bible...

I'm pretty sure nobody, even Akin, thinks that women are consciously able to have (or not have) a miscarriage, as would be required to substantiate a manslaughter charge.

You're quite right, though, about the connection between their inability to see what the Bible actually says (based on their presuppositions) and the seeming inability to understand why the law is the way it is.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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27-11-2016, 06:53 AM (This post was last modified: 27-11-2016 08:26 AM by Velvet.)
RE: Christians Move To EXECUTE Women For Abortions
(27-11-2016 06:28 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  I'm pretty sure nobody, even Akin, thinks that women are consciously able to have (or not have) a miscarriage, as would be required to substantiate a manslaughter charge.

I don't mean that, I meant they could make a point that a woman who practices abortion is surrendering her ability (and duty) to protect the life of her fetus, in the same way the driver surrenders his control with alcohol.

They could make it look like a woman making an abortion is the same case of a person turning off a patient's life support machines on a hospital, with the intent to kill.

Yes I agree that this would be a grotesque analogy, but I don't think that's beyond them.

That which can be destroyed by the truth should be.”
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27-11-2016, 08:38 AM
RE: Christians Move To EXECUTE Women For Abortions
(27-11-2016 06:53 AM)Velvet Wrote:  
(27-11-2016 06:28 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  I'm pretty sure nobody, even Akin, thinks that women are consciously able to have (or not have) a miscarriage, as would be required to substantiate a manslaughter charge.

I don't mean that, I meant they could make a point that a woman who practices abortion is surrendering her ability (and duty) to protect the life of her fetus, in the same way the driver surrenders his control with alcohol.

They could make it look like a woman making an abortion is the same case of a person turning off a patient's life support machines on a hospital, with the intent to kill.

Yes I agree that this would be a grotesque analogy, but I don't think that's beyond them.

Ah, quite so.

I was responding specifically to the person who said that he wouldn't put it past them to make a miscarriage a manslaughter charge. While the establishment of the fetus as a human being (with attendant rights), abortion would certainly become legally a murder, it does not follow legally that a miscarriage would be manslaughter.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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27-11-2016, 09:07 AM
RE: Christians Move To EXECUTE Women For Abortions
"Small government! Small government! Small government!"*

*except we will try and pass 400 laws to restrict abortion as much as possible while spending $3,228,000 of your tax dollars to do it.

"If you don't have a seat at the table, you're probably on the menu."

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27-11-2016, 11:00 AM
RE: Christians Move To EXECUTE Women For Abortions
(27-11-2016 09:07 AM)ShadowProject Wrote:  "Small government! Small government! Small government!"*

*except we will try and pass 400 laws to restrict abortion as much as possible while spending $3,228,000 of your tax dollars to do it.

Also, recreational drug use. (Gotta maintain Nixon's policy of indirectly targeting his enemies in the Culture Wars.)

Also, making the military even bigger. I've got nothing against most people in uniform, but talk about disproportionate bloat, both by numbers and by budget.

Also, letting public school teachers (aka, government agents) dictate to their pupils whether, when, and what to pray.

Also also also...
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27-11-2016, 11:08 AM
RE: Christians Move To EXECUTE Women For Abortions
(27-11-2016 08:38 AM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  
(27-11-2016 06:53 AM)Velvet Wrote:  I don't mean that, I meant they could make a point that a woman who practices abortion is surrendering her ability (and duty) to protect the life of her fetus, in the same way the driver surrenders his control with alcohol.

They could make it look like a woman making an abortion is the same case of a person turning off a patient's life support machines on a hospital, with the intent to kill.

Yes I agree that this would be a grotesque analogy, but I don't think that's beyond them.

Ah, quite so.

I was responding specifically to the person who said that he wouldn't put it past them to make a miscarriage a manslaughter charge. While the establishment of the fetus as a human being (with attendant rights), abortion would certainly become legally a murder, it does not follow legally that a miscarriage would be manslaughter.

I think there's a good likelihood that there will be pushes to make laws under which miscarriages will be treated as suspicious deaths and trigger automatic investigations, and also that women who are visibly pregnant/known to be pregnant may be taken into "protective" (for the fetus) custody if they are accused of engaging in activities that would endanger the fetus's health. This kind of thing has already been attempted at the state level in some places. Initially the custody laws will be aimed at drug abusers and alcoholics, then broadened to include physically stressful occupations, then mentally stressful occupations, and then women could be effectively locked out of many jobs.

It's a stretch, yes, but I could see it happening...GOP-dominated government makes for scary times for females, fertile or not.
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28-11-2016, 08:52 AM
RE: Christians Move To EXECUTE Women For Abortions
(27-11-2016 11:08 AM)julep Wrote:  I think there's a good likelihood that there will be pushes to make laws under which miscarriages will be treated as suspicious deaths and trigger automatic investigations, and also that women who are visibly pregnant/known to be pregnant may be taken into "protective" (for the fetus) custody if they are accused of engaging in activities that would endanger the fetus's health. This kind of thing has already been attempted at the state level in some places. Initially the custody laws will be aimed at drug abusers and alcoholics, then broadened to include physically stressful occupations, then mentally stressful occupations, and then women could be effectively locked out of many jobs.

It's a stretch, yes, but I could see it happening...GOP-dominated government makes for scary times for females, fertile or not.

I posted this in the "Funny Pictures for a Laugh at Religion" thread, but I think it applies here more poignantly:

[Image: religion%2Band%2Bwomens%2Brights.jpg]

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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