Christians and Death
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13-11-2012, 12:32 PM
RE: Christians and Death
(13-11-2012 12:16 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  I refuse to be shut down so easily. I want to know about your art. Can you at least tell me in what style? Wink
Son, for nearly five years I used to fend off hospitals, doctors and other institutions and individuals, calling about the money that our company owed them (or rather, that other companies owed them through us) and I was GREAT at not giving straight answers and deflecting everything they had to throw at me Drinking Beverage

With me everything's on a need-to-know basis Cool

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13-11-2012, 12:35 PM
RE: Christians and Death
I have this theory...

Theists want to believe in the afterlife. They hope there is an afterlife. But they have brains. Even though they spend their entire lives trying to wrap their heads around their goofy religion, whichever one it is, their brain is still engaged in there. Somewhere. Buried deep down, but it's there. So they go to church, sing the hymns, pray the prayers, etc. But that brain never quite goes away.

I know, I know, some of you are thinking "Hey, that's not true, most of the theists I know are brain dead." But all sarcasm aside, they're really not. Some little glimmer of logic, reason, rationality, is lurking down there in the dusty, rarely used portions of their brain.

And that little glimmer keeps telling them "Hey, dummy, this mythology crap is just that: crap. You don't really believe this crap, do you?"

They fight it. They squash it. They bury it as deeply as they can. They go through life pretending it's not there, fooling everyone else with the depth of their religious convictions, even fooling themselves most of the time.

But then something truly emotional happens, like the death of a loved one. They are overwhelmed with sorrow and grief. They let their barriers down. Maybe just a little, but it's so hard to keep those barriers up while suffering all that grief. And now that little, buried, forgotten glimmer becomes a shout, reminding them loud and clear that their belief system is just crappy mythology. They fight and struggle and eventually they will get around to re-burying that unwanted rationality.

But here, now, in the present, while their grief tears down those belief barriers, they are raw and exposed and their rational mind is beating their religious convictions to a bloody pulp. More or less.

So right now, during these intense moments of grief, that's when their belief in the afterlife is at its weakest.

Of course, that's only a theory. I've never had any religious convictions, so I speak only from observance and guesswork with no personal frame of reference to check my theory against. On the other hand, I've had religious people tell me that I hit the nail right on the head for them, so I'll stand by the theory for now.

"Whores perform the same function as priests, but far more thoroughly." - Robert A. Heinlein
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13-11-2012, 12:44 PM
RE: Christians and Death
(13-11-2012 12:35 PM)Aseptic Skeptic Wrote:  Of course, that's only a theory.

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In all seriousness, I'd rather call it "hypothesis" or "guess", to avoid confusion.

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13-11-2012, 12:46 PM
RE: Christians and Death
(13-11-2012 12:35 PM)Aseptic Skeptic Wrote:  I have this theory...

Theists want to believe in the afterlife. They hope there is an afterlife. But they have brains. Even though they spend their entire lives trying to wrap their heads around their goofy religion, whichever one it is, their brain is still engaged in there. Somewhere. Buried deep down, but it's there. So they go to church, sing the hymns, pray the prayers, etc. But that brain never quite goes away.

I know, I know, some of you are thinking "Hey, that's not true, most of the theists I know are brain dead." But all sarcasm aside, they're really not. Some little glimmer of logic, reason, rationality, is lurking down there in the dusty, rarely used portions of their brain.

And that little glimmer keeps telling them "Hey, dummy, this mythology crap is just that: crap. You don't really believe this crap, do you?"

They fight it. They squash it. They bury it as deeply as they can. They go through life pretending it's not there, fooling everyone else with the depth of their religious convictions, even fooling themselves most of the time.

But then something truly emotional happens, like the death of a loved one. They are overwhelmed with sorrow and grief. They let their barriers down. Maybe just a little, but it's so hard to keep those barriers up while suffering all that grief. And now that little, buried, forgotten glimmer becomes a shout, reminding them loud and clear that their belief system is just crappy mythology. They fight and struggle and eventually they will get around to re-burying that unwanted rationality.

But here, now, in the present, while their grief tears down those belief barriers, they are raw and exposed and their rational mind is beating their religious convictions to a bloody pulp. More or less.

So right now, during these intense moments of grief, that's when their belief in the afterlife is at its weakest.

Of course, that's only a theory. I've never had any religious convictions, so I speak only from observance and guesswork with no personal frame of reference to check my theory against. On the other hand, I've had religious people tell me that I hit the nail right on the head for them, so I'll stand by the theory for now.
I was just thinking this very thing as I was reading this thread. I also feel it's possible that religious people's reactions to death may be rather telling.

However, there's also the fact that when any person experiences the loss of a loved one, or even someone they knew perhaps less well, they are reminded of the reality of their own mortality. This can give anyone pause, believers and non-believer alike.

He's not the Messiah. He's a very naughty boy! -Brian's mum
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13-11-2012, 12:56 PM
RE: Christians and Death
This is just silly.

If you spent much of your time with the person because you liked them, then you're going to miss them when they are dead because there will be a void in your life.

If they played no major role in your life, you won't.

Religion has absolutely nothing to do with any of it.

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13-11-2012, 02:06 PM
RE: Christians and Death
(13-11-2012 12:32 PM)Vera Wrote:  
(13-11-2012 12:16 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  I refuse to be shut down so easily. I want to know about your art. Can you at least tell me in what style? Wink
Son, for nearly five years I used to fend off hospitals, doctors and other institutions and individuals, calling about the money that our company owed them (or rather, that other companies owed them through us) and I was GREAT at not giving straight answers and deflecting everything they had to throw at me Drinking Beverage

With me everything's on a need-to-know basis Cool
It is imperative. I need to know.

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13-11-2012, 02:26 PM
RE: Christians and Death
(13-11-2012 02:06 PM)Logica Humano Wrote:  
(13-11-2012 12:32 PM)Vera Wrote:  Son, for nearly five years I used to fend off hospitals, doctors and other institutions and individuals, calling about the money that our company owed them (or rather, that other companies owed them through us) and I was GREAT at not giving straight answers and deflecting everything they had to throw at me Drinking Beverage

With me everything's on a need-to-know basis Cool
It is imperative. I need to know.
I'll tell you, but then I'll have to kill you and I'm violently opposed to violence, and also:



"E se non passa la tristezza con altri occhi la guarderò."
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13-11-2012, 03:00 PM
RE: Christians and Death
(13-11-2012 12:56 PM)Dom Wrote:  Religion has absolutely nothing to do with any of it.
Why not?

If I had a 90-year-old relative suffering from cancer and in pain all the time, AND if I believed, really, truly, believed in Heaven, then when my relative died I would say:

What I would say Wrote:Hallelujah!

They really are in an infinitely better place, happy, pain-free, perfect. While it's true that I miss them today, I know I'll see them soon, a few decades at most, and then we can be happy and pain-free and perfect for ever and ever and ever and ever and ever. This is absolutely the best day of their life and I'm even a little jealous of them for passing away and getting to Heaven today while I'm stuck here on this miserable earth. I can't wait til it's my turn to die so I can leave this crappy rock and join them in Heaven for all eternity.

So yeah, I miss them, but it's really just like they are taking a vacation and I'll see them soon.

I had an aunt die of cancer. It was awful. She was just about 50 years old, much too young for her life to end. When she passed, I missed her. I was upset, even angry that we have things in this world like cancer and that people I love have to suffer from this stuff. But I was glad she didn't have to suffer the cancer anymore. I wished she had never gotten cancer and that she could still be here with us, alive and happy and pain-free, but I also knew that was just a meaningless wish. I missed her and I was sad that she had died. I expected that I would never see her again because I don't believe in afterlives of any kind. That made me sad.

But no, I never hear any religious person saying anything even remotely like my quote above. The closest they come is, through their tears, saying "they're in a better place". But never any hallelujah. Never "I'm jealous they went to heaven before me" or "I wish I were in heaven now too" or "I can't wait to get there too". None of that. They all ACT like this is the only real life and there is no heaven, even while professing to believe in an afterlife.

Their actions do not correspond with their professed beliefs.

That leads me to assume that their belief in an afterlife is little more of a reassurance to them than mine is to me. Hence my theory. And yes, I did go there. Theory. The simple, colloquial use of the word. It is just a theory.

"Whores perform the same function as priests, but far more thoroughly." - Robert A. Heinlein
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13-11-2012, 03:21 PM
RE: Christians and Death
(13-11-2012 03:00 PM)Aseptic Skeptic Wrote:  And yes, I did go there. Theory. The simple, colloquial use of the word. It is just a theory.
I was trying to be funny with that post by taking your quote out of context, making it look like that of a religious fundamentalist. Apparently, that didn't work out as I expected. Oh well. Undecided

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13-11-2012, 03:31 PM (This post was last modified: 13-11-2012 04:13 PM by Aseptic Skeptic.)
RE: Christians and Death
(13-11-2012 03:21 PM)Vosur Wrote:  
(13-11-2012 03:00 PM)Aseptic Skeptic Wrote:  And yes, I did go there. Theory. The simple, colloquial use of the word. It is just a theory.
I was trying to be funny with that post by taking your quote out of context, making it look like that of a religious fundamentalist. Apparently, that didn't work out as I expected. Oh well. Undecided
No, no, I got your humor (the pic kinda put the exclamation point on the humor part); I just thought it would be funny to respond like I might to a fundie. Apparently, that didn't work out as I expected either. Cool

In all seriousness, it's not just a "guess" or a "hypothesis" because some thought, discussion, and even experimentation (well, thought experiments with religious people) went into forming the theory. So it is correct to use the term theory, even though it doesn't live up to the extensive rigors that science uses for its less recognizable use of the word. Personally, I don't think I need a new word; science is the confusing one, not me.

"Whores perform the same function as priests, but far more thoroughly." - Robert A. Heinlein
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