Christians and Evolution - A resource for those in question
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19-08-2015, 01:10 PM
RE: Christians and Evolution - A resource for those in question
KC, you and your brother are not far from the truth.

Doc
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19-08-2015, 04:56 PM
RE: Christians and Evolution - A resource for those in question
I don't see Christianity "dying out", per se, but I do see a large (and increasing) number of youngsters who're taking advantage of the Age of Information (or as I call it, the Age of Google) to check for themselves. If Christianity in America continues to ally itself with clearly-provable nonsense, then there's only so much of a "holding action" that can work for long, for the Creationists who make up BS (as we say, "lie for God") to prop up their sad defense against the march of scientific knowledge. There will be more like me, who ran into a wall of lies about science and started questioning, "what ELSE was I taught about my faith that's a provable lie?"

The notion that the Creator is real, that humans evolved to be the first animal capable of acknowledging its Creator, and that what we find in our holy texts is mankind's imperfect attempt to reach out to some sort of knowledge of that Creator, is not a bad one (even though we, by definition, reject all of those claims for want of positive evidence). People like KC and his brother may do a world of good for people who still wish to acknowledge and worship the Being they feel they owe such devotion, and to formulate moral guidance out of the idea that said Creator sent a part of himself in human form to show us the way to be better to one another. I don't have an issue with them or this belief... I really don't.

Unfortunately, so far they have not been effective in pushing back against the shallow, Bronze-Age creation mythology that is found in a literal interpretation of Genesis, and as a result we have quite a bit of nonsense in our politics and in our society. As atheists, we should be supportive and root for such intelligent Christians, because they can do more to encourage rationalist and humanist philosophies in the world from the inside than we can accomplish from the excluded, outside circles (and enclaves such as this) in which we reside. I'm not saying anything bad about the true nature of atheists/atheism (duh... I am one!), but I acknowledge that our ability to influence the faithful-but-not-braindead is limited because of the pre-formed ideas about our antagonism to People of Faith, which we hear repeated so often in this forum. I think this is why guys like GE and Heywood come here, to make us call them "fuckwits" (etc), and try to portray atheists as evil and aggressive antagonists to "the good folks"... we might win the argument, but we lose the battle.

So kudos to your brother for his intellectual honesty and bravery, KC. When you tell him that we support him, make sure you let him know that it's not because we think he's on some "path to atheism", but because we welcome allies in the realm of rational thinking.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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20-08-2015, 07:21 AM
RE: Christians and Evolution - A resource for those in question
(19-08-2015 11:22 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  He was a Baptist pastor, but the constant friction of his "liberal" beliefs and Calvinism caused various churches to get rid of him. He now has a "regular" job and uses his blog as his way to be a pastor.

Ah. My wife's church has a similar issue of being too liberal for synod. They accept openly gay members and are planning on performing same-sex marriages.
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20-08-2015, 07:58 AM
RE: Christians and Evolution - A resource for those in question
(19-08-2015 11:22 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  
(19-08-2015 10:50 AM)RobbyPants Wrote:  I may have missed this from elsewhere, but what does he do for a living?

He was a Baptist pastor, but the constant friction of his "liberal" beliefs and Calvinism caused various churches to get rid of him. He now has a "regular" job and uses his blog as his way to be a pastor.

Your brother should have jumped on the prosperity wagon, he could be livin' like a rockstar! Drooling



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20-08-2015, 10:11 AM
RE: Christians and Evolution - A resource for those in question
My brother and I thank you for the kind words.

However, it seems that we are deceived by Satan... well according to some of the "well meaning" Christian peers.

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20-08-2015, 10:15 AM
RE: Christians and Evolution - A resource for those in question
...and here's the best part. They sent their condemnations anonymously.

While by brother and I have the fortitude to stand up for what we believe, these turds can't even sack up and say what they want to say with their own names attached to it.

God... Christians piss me off.

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20-08-2015, 10:35 AM
RE: Christians and Evolution - A resource for those in question
(20-08-2015 10:15 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  ...and here's the best part. They sent their condemnations anonymously.

While by brother and I have the fortitude to stand up for what we believe, these turds can't even sack up and say what they want to say with their own names attached to it.

God... Christians piss me off.

Hug
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20-08-2015, 01:56 PM
RE: Christians and Evolution - A resource for those in question
(19-08-2015 09:17 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  As many of you know, my brother and I are huge proponents of evolution while retaining the status of Christianity.

I haven't read his articles yet, and they may already answer my questions, but I'm going to ask it anyway.

If you understand evolution, you understand that the Adam and Eve story is impossible, with no Adam and Eve, there is no original sin. Without original sin, there is no need for a savior, so why be a Christian at all? Clearly you're both level headed and don't "need religion" as others do.

Remember, just because you want something to be true, doesn't make it true. Yes, even if you have faith.
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20-08-2015, 02:19 PM
RE: Christians and Evolution - A resource for those in question
I've been trying to convince my brother for months now to re-join TTA. He lurks a lot, so I guess that's something.

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20-08-2015, 02:23 PM
RE: Christians and Evolution - A resource for those in question
(20-08-2015 01:56 PM)microterf Wrote:  
(19-08-2015 09:17 AM)kingschosen Wrote:  As many of you know, my brother and I are huge proponents of evolution while retaining the status of Christianity.

I haven't read his articles yet, and they may already answer my questions, but I'm going to ask it anyway.

If you understand evolution, you understand that the Adam and Eve story is impossible, with no Adam and Eve, there is no original sin. Without original sin, there is no need for a savior, so why be a Christian at all? Clearly you're both level headed and don't "need religion" as others do.

I won't speak for my brother, but I don't believe in OS as taught from the Bible's Creation Myth.

We were created/evolved to be sinners and have a sin nature. It wasn't because of any one thing that some ancient goat herder did that we are sinful.

We are sinful because God created us that way, and the purpose of Christ was to give the elect grace and forgiveness for that sin nature.

Now... there is more theology that goes into it, but I'm not going to type all that out. I'm just giving you the gist.

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