Christians are ready to fight themselves it seems.
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07-07-2013, 04:53 PM
Christians are ready to fight themselves it seems.
I had a discussion with a Baptist minister last night when he came visiting and I think it is interesting. We came upon the subject of religious beliefs across the world. He made the age old quote of "I know because I know. God has proven to me." To which my response was that a Muslim or Hindu or Jew would say the same and how could he disprove their conviction. The answer was that they were deceived by Satan and listening to the wrong information. Furthermore, the reason they were so deceived was that they had not been taught the correct message. In essence, he says, they have not studied the teaching of Christ. And if they had, they would surely have converted by now.

And so, I posed a very simple question. Do Jews continue the practice of animal sacrifice? He said "I don't know. I suppose they do." So then you are condemning all other religions as being deceived, for not listening, and yet you yourself have not listened to them? How then can you know if you are not the deceived one? His answer to that was faith (of course).

I then moved the conversation to Christianity itself. I said that the Bible teaches that a house divided cannot stand. And yet, I can name a dozen or more denomination and divisions within Christianity. (I heard somewhere that it is actually more like 5,000+) Surely if the Bible were the undeniable truth of God the followers of biblical teaching would be able to ascertain the correct meaning of the word? Again, no answer.

So then sir, you agree that members of your own religion are following incorrect teachings? Yes. And they are too being deceived? Yes. So then they also are not really Christian? Yes. And you would then condemn the members of your own religion just as you would those of another? Yes.

He ended up finding an excuse to leave shortly thereafter. I wish I could show you the look on his face as he struggled with my questions. I don't think he had ever been questioned like that before. He seemed genuinely scared. I had a blast. To his credit, he didn't try to backpedal. And he only used the faith copout once.

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07-07-2013, 05:01 PM
RE: Christians are ready to fight themselves it seems.
Well done!

Very good points. Smile

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07-07-2013, 07:22 PM
RE: Christians are ready to fight themselves it seems.
Nice job sirSmile I love those kinds of conversations for all the same reasons, they are never prepared for REAL questions, and if they are smart enough...when they realize that they cannot come up with easy and logical answers they begin to question their own beliefs right on the spot.

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07-07-2013, 07:41 PM
RE: Christians are ready to fight themselves it seems.
I actually find it kind of funny that in officail documents the Catholic church doesn't refer to protestant churches as churches. they're known as "Ecclesiastical communities"

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08-07-2013, 04:13 PM
RE: Christians are ready to fight themselves it seems.
(07-07-2013 04:53 PM)PatThePoltergeist Wrote:  I had a discussion with a Baptist minister last night when he came visiting and I think it is interesting. We came upon the subject of religious beliefs across the world. He made the age old quote of "I know because I know. God has proven to me." To which my response was that a Muslim or Hindu or Jew would say the same and how could he disprove their conviction. The answer was that they were deceived by Satan and listening to the wrong information. Furthermore, the reason they were so deceived was that they had not been taught the correct message. In essence, he says, they have not studied the teaching of Christ. And if they had, they would surely have converted by now.

And so, I posed a very simple question. Do Jews continue the practice of animal sacrifice? He said "I don't know. I suppose they do." So then you are condemning all other religions as being deceived, for not listening, and yet you yourself have not listened to them? How then can you know if you are not the deceived one? His answer to that was faith (of course).

I then moved the conversation to Christianity itself. I said that the Bible teaches that a house divided cannot stand. And yet, I can name a dozen or more denomination and divisions within Christianity. (I heard somewhere that it is actually more like 5,000+) Surely if the Bible were the undeniable truth of God the followers of biblical teaching would be able to ascertain the correct meaning of the word? Again, no answer.

So then sir, you agree that members of your own religion are following incorrect teachings? Yes. And they are too being deceived? Yes. So then they also are not really Christian? Yes. And you would then condemn the members of your own religion just as you would those of another? Yes.

He ended up finding an excuse to leave shortly thereafter. I wish I could show you the look on his face as he struggled with my questions. I don't think he had ever been questioned like that before. He seemed genuinely scared. I had a blast. To his credit, he didn't try to backpedal. And he only used the faith copout once.
I like your questions. If you had asked me, I would have said the body of Christ is not divided as it appears. What we see in denominations is what I would label the muddying of clear waters. The belief in the Spirit of Christ is simply believing that it is a divine Love that would sacrifice themselves to save others. That's how I see it.
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08-07-2013, 06:52 PM
RE: Christians are ready to fight themselves it seems.
I'm all for throwing mud at xtians.
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08-07-2013, 07:18 PM
RE: Christians are ready to fight themselves it seems.
Bah, they kill eachother all the time.

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08-07-2013, 07:27 PM (This post was last modified: 08-07-2013 09:36 PM by Bucky Ball.)
RE: Christians are ready to fight themselves it seems.
(07-07-2013 04:53 PM)PatThePoltergeist Wrote:  I had a discussion with a Baptist minister last night when he came visiting

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09-07-2013, 04:00 AM
RE: Christians are ready to fight themselves it seems.
(08-07-2013 04:13 PM)childeye Wrote:  
(07-07-2013 04:53 PM)PatThePoltergeist Wrote:  I had a discussion with a Baptist minister last night when he came visiting and I think it is interesting. We came upon the subject of religious beliefs across the world. He made the age old quote of "I know because I know. God has proven to me." To which my response was that a Muslim or Hindu or Jew would say the same and how could he disprove their conviction. The answer was that they were deceived by Satan and listening to the wrong information. Furthermore, the reason they were so deceived was that they had not been taught the correct message. In essence, he says, they have not studied the teaching of Christ. And if they had, they would surely have converted by now.

And so, I posed a very simple question. Do Jews continue the practice of animal sacrifice? He said "I don't know. I suppose they do." So then you are condemning all other religions as being deceived, for not listening, and yet you yourself have not listened to them? How then can you know if you are not the deceived one? His answer to that was faith (of course).

I then moved the conversation to Christianity itself. I said that the Bible teaches that a house divided cannot stand. And yet, I can name a dozen or more denomination and divisions within Christianity. (I heard somewhere that it is actually more like 5,000+) Surely if the Bible were the undeniable truth of God the followers of biblical teaching would be able to ascertain the correct meaning of the word? Again, no answer.

So then sir, you agree that members of your own religion are following incorrect teachings? Yes. And they are too being deceived? Yes. So then they also are not really Christian? Yes. And you would then condemn the members of your own religion just as you would those of another? Yes.

He ended up finding an excuse to leave shortly thereafter. I wish I could show you the look on his face as he struggled with my questions. I don't think he had ever been questioned like that before. He seemed genuinely scared. I had a blast. To his credit, he didn't try to backpedal. And he only used the faith copout once.
I like your questions. If you had asked me, I would have said the body of Christ is not divided as it appears. What we see in denominations is what I would label the muddying of clear waters. The belief in the Spirit of Christ is simply believing that it is a divine Love that would sacrifice themselves to save others. That's how I see it.

"The belief in the Spirit of Christ is simply believing that it is a divine Love that would sacrifice themselves to save others."

How is it that otherwise sensible, educated 21st century humans can still believe this utter nonsense? Is the unquestioning belief in such drivel a symptom of a particular mental deficiency?

I think so. I'll coin a new phrase..."religious gullibility syndrome." Anyone who thinks Jeebus had himself killed to give himself permission to forgive unrelated third parties for being born deserves this label. Once someone is recognised as credulous enough to believe this tripe, they forfeit the respect otherwise owing to them. They're too far gone.
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09-07-2013, 05:09 AM
RE: Christians are ready to fight themselves it seems.
You brought up some good points, and I'm glad he answered truthfully & didn't cower. You made him think, and I'd be interested in knowing how that might change him down the road.

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