Christians must follow the old testament.
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23-03-2014, 08:00 AM
RE: Christians must follow the old testament.
(22-03-2014 09:06 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  
(22-03-2014 05:28 PM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  Of course I do. I have the New Testament to use as my support.

Ah, another one who can't see circular logic if it bit him in the ass. Facepalm

"The Bible is true"
How do you know?
"It says so in the Bible"

"The Rigveda is true"
How do you know?
"It says so in the Rigveda"

"The Qu'ran is true"
How do you know?
"It says so in the Qu'ran"

and round and round we go

Since I have never said the Bible is true because the Bible says it is true, your charge of circular reasoning is not applicable to me.
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23-03-2014, 08:03 AM
RE: Christians must follow the old testament.
(23-03-2014 08:00 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(22-03-2014 09:06 PM)Full Circle Wrote:  Ah, another one who can't see circular logic if it bit him in the ass. Facepalm

"The Bible is true"
How do you know?
"It says so in the Bible"

"The Rigveda is true"
How do you know?
"It says so in the Rigveda"

"The Qu'ran is true"
How do you know?
"It says so in the Qu'ran"

and round and round we go

Since I have never said the Bible is true because the Bible says it is true, your charge of circular reasoning is not applicable to me.

So how do you know the bible is true? What evidence do you have.

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23-03-2014, 08:35 AM
RE: Christians must follow the old testament.
(22-03-2014 08:59 PM)Charis Wrote:  Jeremy, you seem to favor Dispensational Theology over Covenant Theology. Where, in your opinion, are those in favor of Covenant Theology in error?

I do not consign myself into either of the three categories i.e Dispensationalism, New Covenant Theology, or Covenant Theology.

I find however, myself agreeing with more of the tenets of the New Covenant Theological position than any of the others.
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23-03-2014, 08:40 AM
RE: Christians must follow the old testament.
(23-03-2014 08:03 AM)ThePaleolithicFreethinker Wrote:  So how do you know the bible is true? What evidence do you have.

The following is not an exhaustive list but is a part of the cumulative case for demonstrating the reliability of the Bible. The most important piece of evidence I have that the Bible is true is that I did what it said and got what it promised i.e a relationship with God Himself.

1. Manuscript Evidence. There are way more copies of the biblical manuscripts, with remarkable consistency between them, than there are for any of the classics like Plato, Aristotle and Socrates. "There is no body of ancient literature in the world which enjoys such a wealth of good textual attestation as the New Testament." F.F. Bruce, The New Testament Documents: Are They Reliable?

2. Archaeological Evidence. Again and again archaeological discoveries have verified the accuracy of the historical and cultural references in the Bible. The more they dig, the more it confirms the Bible. “It is important to note that Near Eastern archaeology has demonstrated the historical and geographical reliability of the Bible in many important areas.” E.M. Blaiklock, The New International Dictionary of Biblical Archaeology.

3. Eyewitness Accounts. The Bible was written by people who witnessed the events it describes; many were persecuted or martyred but never changed their story. Would you die for something you knew was untrue? “It is no moderate approbation of Scripture that it has been sealed by the blood of so many witnesses, especially when we reflect that they died to render testimony to the faith …with a firm and constant, yet sober, zeal toward God.” John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion.

4. Corroborating Accounts. There are plenty of references in non-biblical sources to the events described in the Bible. The Jewish historian Josephus, born in 37 AD, “provide(s) indispensable background material for the student of…New Testament history. In them, we meet many figures well known to us from the New Testament. Some of his writings provide direct commentary on New Testament references.” J.D. Douglas, ed., The New Bible Dictionary.

5. Literary Consistency. The Bible contains 66 books written over 1,500 years by 40 different writers but it tells one "big story" of God's plan of salvation that culminated in Jesus Christ. You can't even pass a secret around a circle of 12 people and get the same message at the end. “There is indeed a wide variety of human authors and themes (in the Bible). Yet behind these…there lies a single divine author with a single unifying theme.” John R.W. Stott, Understanding the Bible.

6. Prophetic Consistency. There are over 300 specific prophecies in the Old Testament that are fulfilled in the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ in the New Testament. “The very dimension of the sheer fulfillment of prophecy of the Old Testament Scriptures should be enough to convince anyone that we are dealing with a supernatural piece of literature….God has himself planted within the scriptures an internal consistency that bears witness that this is his Word.” R.C. Sproul, Now That’s a Good Question.

7. Expert Scrutiny. The early church had extremely high standards for what books were judged to be authentic and therefore included in the Bible. A book had to have been written by an Apostle or someone in their immediate circle, had to conform to basic Christian faith and had to be in widespread use among many churches. This was a careful process of “the people of God in many different places, coming to recognize what other believers elsewhere found to be true”; these writings were truly God’s word. G.J. Wenham, J.A. Motyer, D.A. Carson and R.T. France, The New Bible Commentary.

8. Leader Acceptance. A majority of the greatest leaders and thinkers in history have affirmed the truth and impact of the Bible. "I believe the Bible is the best gift God has ever given man. All the good from the Savior of the world is communicated to us through this book. But for it we could not know right from wrong.” Abraham Lincoln.

9. Global Influence. The Bible has had a greater influence on the laws, art, ethics, music and literature of world civilization than any other book in history. Can you think of one that even comes close? “Christianity”, as set forth in the Bible “is responsible for a disproportionately large number of the humanitarian advances in the history of civilization—in education, medicine, law, the fine arts, working for human rights and even in the natural sciences….” Craig L. Blomberg, in Christian Apologetics: A Comprehensive Case for Biblical Faith.

10. Changed Lives. From St. Augustine to Martin Luther to Joni Eareckson Tada to countless everyday men, women and children, the words of the Bible have transformed lives unmistakably and forever. “As unnamed masses of Christians down through the ages have shown us, the Bible is the most reliable place to turn for finding the key to a life of love and good works.” T.M. Moore, The Case for the Bible.

http://www.essentialbibleblog.com/2013/0...-true.html
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23-03-2014, 08:49 AM
RE: Christians must follow the old testament.
(22-03-2014 08:55 PM)Mark Fulton Wrote:  "Jesus said in Luke 22:20, "This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in My blood.""

If you had even a slight understanding of the real history you would know that Jesus, if he ever even existed, said nothing of the sort.

What makes you think anyone on the thinking atheist forum has the slightest interest in being preached to about your interpretation of the babble?

You have made a truth claim. The claim is that Jesus never said what Luke records Him as having said.

Do you have any evidence or argument or proof to back up this claim?
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23-03-2014, 09:01 AM
RE: Christians must follow the old testament.
(23-03-2014 08:40 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(23-03-2014 08:03 AM)ThePaleolithicFreethinker Wrote:  So how do you know the bible is true? What evidence do you have.

The following is not an exhaustive list but is a part of the cumulative case for demonstrating the reliability of the Bible. The most important piece of evidence I have that the Bible is true is that I did what it said and got what it promised i.e a relationship with God Himself.

1. Manuscript Evidence. There are way more copies of the biblical manuscripts, with remarkable consistency between them, than there are for any of the classics like Plato, Aristotle and Socrates. "There is no body of ancient literature in the world which enjoys such a wealth of good textual attestation as the New Testament." F.F. Bruce, The New Testament Documents: Are They Reliable?

2. Archaeological Evidence. Again and again archaeological discoveries have verified the accuracy of the historical and cultural references in the Bible. The more they dig, the more it confirms the Bible. “It is important to note that Near Eastern archaeology has demonstrated the historical and geographical reliability of the Bible in many important areas.” E.M. Blaiklock, The New International Dictionary of Biblical Archaeology.

3. Eyewitness Accounts. The Bible was written by people who witnessed the events it describes; many were persecuted or martyred but never changed their story. Would you die for something you knew was untrue? “It is no moderate approbation of Scripture that it has been sealed by the blood of so many witnesses, especially when we reflect that they died to render testimony to the faith …with a firm and constant, yet sober, zeal toward God.” John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion.

4. Corroborating Accounts. There are plenty of references in non-biblical sources to the events described in the Bible. The Jewish historian Josephus, born in 37 AD, “provide(s) indispensable background material for the student of…New Testament history. In them, we meet many figures well known to us from the New Testament. Some of his writings provide direct commentary on New Testament references.” J.D. Douglas, ed., The New Bible Dictionary.

5. Literary Consistency. The Bible contains 66 books written over 1,500 years by 40 different writers but it tells one "big story" of God's plan of salvation that culminated in Jesus Christ. You can't even pass a secret around a circle of 12 people and get the same message at the end. “There is indeed a wide variety of human authors and themes (in the Bible). Yet behind these…there lies a single divine author with a single unifying theme.” John R.W. Stott, Understanding the Bible.

6. Prophetic Consistency. There are over 300 specific prophecies in the Old Testament that are fulfilled in the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ in the New Testament. “The very dimension of the sheer fulfillment of prophecy of the Old Testament Scriptures should be enough to convince anyone that we are dealing with a supernatural piece of literature….God has himself planted within the scriptures an internal consistency that bears witness that this is his Word.” R.C. Sproul, Now That’s a Good Question.

7. Expert Scrutiny. The early church had extremely high standards for what books were judged to be authentic and therefore included in the Bible. A book had to have been written by an Apostle or someone in their immediate circle, had to conform to basic Christian faith and had to be in widespread use among many churches. This was a careful process of “the people of God in many different places, coming to recognize what other believers elsewhere found to be true”; these writings were truly God’s word. G.J. Wenham, J.A. Motyer, D.A. Carson and R.T. France, The New Bible Commentary.

8. Leader Acceptance. A majority of the greatest leaders and thinkers in history have affirmed the truth and impact of the Bible. "I believe the Bible is the best gift God has ever given man. All the good from the Savior of the world is communicated to us through this book. But for it we could not know right from wrong.” Abraham Lincoln.

9. Global Influence. The Bible has had a greater influence on the laws, art, ethics, music and literature of world civilization than any other book in history. Can you think of one that even comes close? “Christianity”, as set forth in the Bible “is responsible for a disproportionately large number of the humanitarian advances in the history of civilization—in education, medicine, law, the fine arts, working for human rights and even in the natural sciences….” Craig L. Blomberg, in Christian Apologetics: A Comprehensive Case for Biblical Faith.

10. Changed Lives. From St. Augustine to Martin Luther to Joni Eareckson Tada to countless everyday men, women and children, the words of the Bible have transformed lives unmistakably and forever. “As unnamed masses of Christians down through the ages have shown us, the Bible is the most reliable place to turn for finding the key to a life of love and good works.” T.M. Moore, The Case for the Bible.

http://www.essentialbibleblog.com/2013/0...-true.html

1. every religion claims that. Only people that say that the bible is consistent are christians. No different then the only person that said the vedas are consistent are hindus

2.http://www.indianweekender.co.nz/Pages/ArticleDetails/51/1421/Comment/How-science-discovered-the-historical-Krishna So does krishna

3.Eyewitness testimony is the worst type of evidence. Also krishna

4.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Muhammad so does the quran

5.Look at number one

6.What prophecy. There will be a war. Also again every religion says that.

http://bci.org/prophecy-fulfilled/hindusa.htm

http://www.islamreligion.com/articles/347/

7.They got rid of books they didn't like. Also the bible references books that are removed from the book. (ie refering to the book of enoch)

8.Robert Mugabe also believes in the christian god and is one of the worst dictators in history.

9.Sure it did, when you enslave people to do your bidding. There is more art of animals then there is christianity. There fore we should all worship animals

10. Hitler, the crusaders, the people who owned slaves in america.

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23-03-2014, 09:11 AM
RE: Christians must follow the old testament.
(23-03-2014 09:01 AM)ThePaleolithicFreethinker Wrote:  1. every religion claims that. Only people that say that the bible is consistent are christians. No different then the only person that said the vedas are consistent are hindus

So? How does what you said in any way demonstrate that the Bible is not reliable?

(23-03-2014 09:01 AM)ThePaleolithicFreethinker Wrote:  3.Eyewitness testimony is the worst type of evidence.

Really? Interesting. So if someone murdered your loved and some people were eyewitnesses to it and their testimony was deemed to be one of the worst types of evidence and therefore inadmissible in court, you would agree with that?

I doubt it.


(23-03-2014 09:01 AM)ThePaleolithicFreethinker Wrote:  8.Robert Mugabe also believes in the christian god and is one of the worst dictators in history.

So? How does that prove the bible is unreliable? Red Herring it seems to me.

(23-03-2014 09:01 AM)ThePaleolithicFreethinker Wrote:  10. Hitler, the crusaders, the people who owned slaves in america.
How do they prove the bible is unreliable? Seems like another Red Herring.
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23-03-2014, 09:27 AM
RE: Christians must follow the old testament.
My dear Jeremy - do you have one single thing to say which isn't warmed over turds? Because you must realize that the shallowest of boilerplate apologetic falsehoods are not particularly compelling.

(23-03-2014 08:40 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  1. Manuscript Evidence. There are way more copies of the biblical manuscripts, with remarkable consistency between them, than there are for any of the classics like Plato, Aristotle and Socrates. "There is no body of ancient literature in the world which enjoys such a wealth of good textual attestation as the New Testament." F.F. Bruce, The New Testament Documents: Are They Reliable?

That doesn't mean anything.

Though it does probably have something to do the part where 5th century christians expressly preferred holding on to their own scripture instead of any useful philosophical, historical, or scientific works, which they happily consigned to the trash heaps. Whoops!

(23-03-2014 08:40 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  2. Archaeological Evidence. Again and again archaeological discoveries have verified the accuracy of the historical and cultural references in the Bible. The more they dig, the more it confirms the Bible. “It is important to note that Near Eastern archaeology has demonstrated the historical and geographical reliability of the Bible in many important areas.” E.M. Blaiklock, The New International Dictionary of Biblical Archaeology.

The Old Testament bears very little relation to reality, as demonstrated by every attempt ever to prove otherwise. The New Testament has no external verification.

(23-03-2014 08:40 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  3. Eyewitness Accounts. The Bible was written by people who witnessed the events it describes; many were persecuted or martyred but never changed their story. Would you die for something you knew was untrue? “It is no moderate approbation of Scripture that it has been sealed by the blood of so many witnesses, especially when we reflect that they died to render testimony to the faith …with a firm and constant, yet sober, zeal toward God.” John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion.

That also doesn't mean anything.

Why are there so many martyrs for other religions? Funny, that. Whoops!

But then, "eyewitness" accounts being the tremendously flawed things they are, that would explain many of the blatant inconsistencies.

(23-03-2014 08:40 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  4. Corroborating Accounts. There are plenty of references in non-biblical sources to the events described in the Bible. The Jewish historian Josephus, born in 37 AD, “provide(s) indispensable background material for the student of…New Testament history. In them, we meet many figures well known to us from the New Testament. Some of his writings provide direct commentary on New Testament references.” J.D. Douglas, ed., The New Bible Dictionary.

So I guess "so many" means "just the one", eh? A nice rhetorical trick.

No, later sources say Christians exist. That's - bear with me - also meaningless. The fact that Zoroastrians existed does not make Ahura-Mazda real.

(23-03-2014 08:40 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  5. Literary Consistency. The Bible contains 66 books written over 1,500 years by 40 different writers but it tells one "big story" of God's plan of salvation that culminated in Jesus Christ. You can't even pass a secret around a circle of 12 people and get the same message at the end. “There is indeed a wide variety of human authors and themes (in the Bible). Yet behind these…there lies a single divine author with a single unifying theme.” John R.W. Stott, Understanding the Bible.

The Protestant Bible contains 66 books. Catholic, Orthodox, or Coptic Bibles have different canons. Without mentioning the likes of, say, Mormons... Whoops!

(23-03-2014 08:40 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  6. Prophetic Consistency. There are over 300 specific prophecies in the Old Testament that are fulfilled in the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ in the New Testament. “The very dimension of the sheer fulfillment of prophecy of the Old Testament Scriptures should be enough to convince anyone that we are dealing with a supernatural piece of literature….God has himself planted within the scriptures an internal consistency that bears witness that this is his Word.” R.C. Sproul, Now That’s a Good Question.

Funny, that, despite the part where the ancient Hebrews hated prophecy.

(23-03-2014 08:40 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  7. Expert Scrutiny. The early church had extremely high standards for what books were judged to be authentic and therefore included in the Bible. A book had to have been written by an Apostle or someone in their immediate circle, had to conform to basic Christian faith and had to be in widespread use among many churches. This was a careful process of “the people of God in many different places, coming to recognize what other believers elsewhere found to be true”; these writings were truly God’s word. G.J. Wenham, J.A. Motyer, D.A. Carson and R.T. France, The New Bible Commentary.

A), that's a bald assertion, and B), you should probably actually study the likes of the Nicean councils.

Killing people to prove your Christology correct is totally the same thing as "coming to recognize what other believers elsewhere found to be true". Whoops!

(23-03-2014 08:40 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  8. Leader Acceptance. A majority of the greatest leaders and thinkers in history have affirmed the truth and impact of the Bible. "I believe the Bible is the best gift God has ever given man. All the good from the Savior of the world is communicated to us through this book. But for it we could not know right from wrong.” Abraham Lincoln.

I'm sensing a pattern here. That's meaningless. I mean, I'm sure Lincoln got all his morals from the Bible. That must be why he embraced slavery!

I guarantee with absolute certainty that you reject parts of Biblical "morality". Therefore you are applying some sort of pre-existing subjective filter to what you draw from it, rendering the point meaningless. Whoops!

(23-03-2014 08:40 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  9. Global Influence. The Bible has had a greater influence on the laws, art, ethics, music and literature of world civilization than any other book in history. Can you think of one that even comes close? “Christianity”, as set forth in the Bible “is responsible for a disproportionately large number of the humanitarian advances in the history of civilization—in education, medicine, law, the fine arts, working for human rights and even in the natural sciences….” Craig L. Blomberg, in Christian Apologetics: A Comprehensive Case for Biblical Faith.

Yeah, that doesn't mean anything either. That only means a particular set of religious scripture was socially important after it became the dominant religion. Not that the likes of, say, the Iliad haven't remained foundational works of literature in the Western canon. Notwithstanding, y'know, the cultures of the rest of the planet.

Biblical obsession actively retarded humanitarian and scientific progress. Whoops!

(23-03-2014 08:40 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  10. Changed Lives. From St. Augustine to Martin Luther to Joni Eareckson Tada to countless everyday men, women and children, the words of the Bible have transformed lives unmistakably and forever. “As unnamed masses of Christians down through the ages have shown us, the Bible is the most reliable place to turn for finding the key to a life of love and good works.” T.M. Moore, The Case for the Bible.

That doesn't mean anything. Or else why have so many lives been changed by the Quran and the Upanishads? Whoops!

...

So, most of that was incoherent and the rest was stupid.

Your apologetic is bad and you should feel bad.

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23-03-2014, 09:32 AM
RE: Christians must follow the old testament.
(23-03-2014 09:11 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  
(23-03-2014 09:01 AM)ThePaleolithicFreethinker Wrote:  1. every religion claims that. Only people that say that the bible is consistent are christians. No different then the only person that said the vedas are consistent are hindus

So? How does what you said in any way demonstrate that the Bible is not reliable?

(23-03-2014 09:01 AM)ThePaleolithicFreethinker Wrote:  3.Eyewitness testimony is the worst type of evidence.

Really? Interesting. So if someone murdered your loved and some people were eyewitnesses to it and their testimony was deemed to be one of the worst types of evidence and therefore inadmissible in court, you would agree with that?

I doubt it.


(23-03-2014 09:01 AM)ThePaleolithicFreethinker Wrote:  8.Robert Mugabe also believes in the christian god and is one of the worst dictators in history.

So? How does that prove the bible is unreliable? Red Herring it seems to me.

(23-03-2014 09:01 AM)ThePaleolithicFreethinker Wrote:  10. Hitler, the crusaders, the people who owned slaves in america.
How do they prove the bible is unreliable? Seems like another Red Herring.

1. because you claimed that the bible has that and so do all other religious books. They all can't be right but they all can be wrong.

2. Ya and then evidence shows it was someone else. I can go and say the person who killed my love one had a pure white face then I say it was jeff the killer, when in reality it wasn't. Evidence beats eyewitness testimony.

http://www.scientificamerican.com/articl...s-have-it/

4. I mentioned the last two because you brought up good people for christianity. You said a quote by abe lincoln to prove the bible. So it is not a red herring. Look back of what you claimed before then look at my refutation.

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23-03-2014, 09:42 AM
RE: Christians must follow the old testament.
(23-03-2014 09:27 AM)cjlr Wrote:  My dear Jeremy - do you have one single thing to say which isn't warmed over turds? Because you must realize that the shallowest of boilerplate apologetic falsehoods are not particularly compelling.

(23-03-2014 08:40 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  1. Manuscript Evidence. There are way more copies of the biblical manuscripts, with remarkable consistency between them, than there are for any of the classics like Plato, Aristotle and Socrates. "There is no body of ancient literature in the world which enjoys such a wealth of good textual attestation as the New Testament." F.F. Bruce, The New Testament Documents: Are They Reliable?

That doesn't mean anything.

Though it does probably have something to do the part where 5th century christians expressly preferred holding on to their own scripture instead of any useful philosophical, historical, or scientific works, which they happily consigned to the trash heaps. Whoops!

(23-03-2014 08:40 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  2. Archaeological Evidence. Again and again archaeological discoveries have verified the accuracy of the historical and cultural references in the Bible. The more they dig, the more it confirms the Bible. “It is important to note that Near Eastern archaeology has demonstrated the historical and geographical reliability of the Bible in many important areas.” E.M. Blaiklock, The New International Dictionary of Biblical Archaeology.

The Old Testament bears very little relation to reality, as demonstrated by every attempt ever to prove otherwise. The New Testament has no external verification.

(23-03-2014 08:40 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  3. Eyewitness Accounts. The Bible was written by people who witnessed the events it describes; many were persecuted or martyred but never changed their story. Would you die for something you knew was untrue? “It is no moderate approbation of Scripture that it has been sealed by the blood of so many witnesses, especially when we reflect that they died to render testimony to the faith …with a firm and constant, yet sober, zeal toward God.” John Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion.

That also doesn't mean anything.

Why are there so many martyrs for other religions? Funny, that. Whoops!

But then, "eyewitness" accounts being the tremendously flawed things they are, that would explain many of the blatant inconsistencies.

(23-03-2014 08:40 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  4. Corroborating Accounts. There are plenty of references in non-biblical sources to the events described in the Bible. The Jewish historian Josephus, born in 37 AD, “provide(s) indispensable background material for the student of…New Testament history. In them, we meet many figures well known to us from the New Testament. Some of his writings provide direct commentary on New Testament references.” J.D. Douglas, ed., The New Bible Dictionary.

So I guess "so many" means "just the one", eh? A nice rhetorical trick.

No, later sources say Christians exist. That's - bear with me - also meaningless. The fact that Zoroastrians existed does not make Ahura-Mazda real.

(23-03-2014 08:40 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  5. Literary Consistency. The Bible contains 66 books written over 1,500 years by 40 different writers but it tells one "big story" of God's plan of salvation that culminated in Jesus Christ. You can't even pass a secret around a circle of 12 people and get the same message at the end. “There is indeed a wide variety of human authors and themes (in the Bible). Yet behind these…there lies a single divine author with a single unifying theme.” John R.W. Stott, Understanding the Bible.

The Protestant Bible contains 66 books. Catholic, Orthodox, or Coptic Bibles have different canons. Without mentioning the likes of, say, Mormons... Whoops!

(23-03-2014 08:40 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  6. Prophetic Consistency. There are over 300 specific prophecies in the Old Testament that are fulfilled in the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ in the New Testament. “The very dimension of the sheer fulfillment of prophecy of the Old Testament Scriptures should be enough to convince anyone that we are dealing with a supernatural piece of literature….God has himself planted within the scriptures an internal consistency that bears witness that this is his Word.” R.C. Sproul, Now That’s a Good Question.

Funny, that, despite the part where the ancient Hebrews hated prophecy.

(23-03-2014 08:40 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  7. Expert Scrutiny. The early church had extremely high standards for what books were judged to be authentic and therefore included in the Bible. A book had to have been written by an Apostle or someone in their immediate circle, had to conform to basic Christian faith and had to be in widespread use among many churches. This was a careful process of “the people of God in many different places, coming to recognize what other believers elsewhere found to be true”; these writings were truly God’s word. G.J. Wenham, J.A. Motyer, D.A. Carson and R.T. France, The New Bible Commentary.

A), that's a bald assertion, and B), you should probably actually study the likes of the Nicean councils.

Killing people to prove your Christology correct is totally the same thing as "coming to recognize what other believers elsewhere found to be true". Whoops!

(23-03-2014 08:40 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  8. Leader Acceptance. A majority of the greatest leaders and thinkers in history have affirmed the truth and impact of the Bible. "I believe the Bible is the best gift God has ever given man. All the good from the Savior of the world is communicated to us through this book. But for it we could not know right from wrong.” Abraham Lincoln.

I'm sensing a pattern here. That's meaningless. I mean, I'm sure Lincoln got all his morals from the Bible. That must be why he embraced slavery!

I guarantee with absolute certainty that you reject parts of Biblical "morality". Therefore you are applying some sort of pre-existing subjective filter to what you draw from it, rendering the point meaningless. Whoops!

(23-03-2014 08:40 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  9. Global Influence. The Bible has had a greater influence on the laws, art, ethics, music and literature of world civilization than any other book in history. Can you think of one that even comes close? “Christianity”, as set forth in the Bible “is responsible for a disproportionately large number of the humanitarian advances in the history of civilization—in education, medicine, law, the fine arts, working for human rights and even in the natural sciences….” Craig L. Blomberg, in Christian Apologetics: A Comprehensive Case for Biblical Faith.

Yeah, that doesn't mean anything either. That only means a particular set of religious scripture was socially important after it became the dominant religion. Not that the likes of, say, the Iliad haven't remained foundational works of literature in the Western canon. Notwithstanding, y'know, the cultures of the rest of the planet.

Biblical obsession actively retarded humanitarian and scientific progress. Whoops!

(23-03-2014 08:40 AM)Jeremy E Walker Wrote:  10. Changed Lives. From St. Augustine to Martin Luther to Joni Eareckson Tada to countless everyday men, women and children, the words of the Bible have transformed lives unmistakably and forever. “As unnamed masses of Christians down through the ages have shown us, the Bible is the most reliable place to turn for finding the key to a life of love and good works.” T.M. Moore, The Case for the Bible.

That doesn't mean anything. Or else why have so many lives been changed by the Quran and the Upanishads? Whoops!

...

So, most of that was incoherent and the rest was stupid.

Your apologetic is bad and you should feel bad.

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