Christians wanting to hijack Easter
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20-01-2016, 09:08 PM
RE: Christians wanting to hijack Easter
(20-01-2016 05:00 PM)Chas Wrote:  Filth and slime? You're hilarious. Drinking Beverage

And it was you who made this personal and started with personal insult and name-calling.
Look Chas, I don't know if its just that I don't like you or your style or what. But whenever I read your comments, I end up quite angry. Like you are attacking me or trying to put me down or something.

Case in point...
(18-01-2016 09:29 AM)Chas Wrote:  
(17-01-2016 10:55 PM)Stevil Wrote:  Easter has nothing to do with Christianity. It's the celebration of the fertility goddess Estre, hence the eggs and rabbits.

Right. Explain that to the Christians. Drinking Beverage

You have created a silly argument. No one actually celebrates the Easter you have defined.

Quote:For the last time, Easter is not a fucking national holiday.


(18-01-2016 12:52 PM)Chas Wrote:  Only the Friday and the Monday are public holidays in NZ.

But more the the point, the Christians already determine the date of Easter every year.
Your argument is entirely without substance.



(19-01-2016 07:46 AM)Chas Wrote:  Your claim that by changing the formula for setting the date of Easter, the Christians are somehow 'hijacking' Easter is still silly.

Just annoying little comments you make.

Easter is a holiday in NZ. Good Friday and Easter Monday are national holidays and
Easter Sunday has trading restrictions on it.

For many NZers, Easter isn't about the Christian beliefs. We don't celebrate Jesus' death or mythical resurrection. NZ is a secular country.

I have no issues with us as a country celebrating Easter, I do have an issue with my country looking to the Christians with regards to setting the date. I do have an issue if the Christians think they can tell our country that the rules to discovering the date have changed.

NZ, as a secular country ought to celebrate Easter how we see fit.

I get that you think my concerns are "silly". I don't consider them silly, they are real and important concerns to me.

If someone at work comes up to me and takes the time to raise some concerns they have about something. I don't tell them that their concerns are silly. If my kids take the time to tell me that something concerns them, I don't tell them that their concerns are silly. If a friend comes to me with concerns I don't tell them that their concerns are silly. I acknowledge what they are saying as something that is important and concerning to them. I acknowledge that I have listened.

I'm not looking for you to agree with me.
I expect you would have concerns if your govt were looking to change gun laws. If you were to complain about proposed gun law changes I wouldn't tell you that your concerns are silly. I might however explain why I think the proposed gun law changes are a good idea, but I certainly would tell you that your concerns are silly.

I take my holidays very seriously. I take the idea that my country is secular and that there ought to be a seperation of govt from religion seriously. I am concerned about a potential change to the Easter holidays date and i am concerned regarding the Christian churchs' ability to dictate to our govt when we are to have national holidays.

Sure in the big scheme of things this isn't likely to impact my day to day life. Never the less it is a concern of mine, it is related to religion and hence I felt the desire to get it off my chest by making a post on an atheist forum.
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20-01-2016, 09:15 PM
RE: Christians wanting to hijack Easter
(16-01-2016 03:28 PM)Stevil Wrote:  Just read this article in the NZ Herald
"Churches to discuss Easter" which looks like it has been sourced from the UK Daily Telegraph "Easter date to be fixed 'within next five to 10 years'"


Quote:Easter should fall on the same Sunday every year, the Archbishop of Canterbury has suggested.
Quote:The Most Rev Justin Welby said that Anglican leaders would join discussions with other church leaders about the move to fix the date
Quote:The Archbishop said: "We had warned the Government that this was coming up. I would expect [it to happen] between five and 10 years' time

The thing is, UK is a secular country and Easter is a traditional holiday with Pagan roots. Easter historically being the celebration of the fertility goddess Eastre and using fertility symbols of rabbits and eggs.

The churches can decide amongst themselves when they want to celebrate Easter but this shouldn't alter the country's perspective of when Easter is to be celebrated.

I'd be quite annoyed if UK and perhaps NZ bend to these Church whims. We need to show that our countries are secular not Christian.

How can the church hijack something it already stole centuries ago?

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21-01-2016, 07:56 AM
RE: Christians wanting to hijack Easter
(20-01-2016 09:08 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(20-01-2016 05:00 PM)Chas Wrote:  Filth and slime? You're hilarious. Drinking Beverage

And it was you who made this personal and started with personal insult and name-calling.
Look Chas, I don't know if its just that I don't like you or your style or what. But whenever I read your comments, I end up quite angry. Like you are attacking me or trying to put me down or something.

Case in point...
(18-01-2016 09:29 AM)Chas Wrote:  Right. Explain that to the Christians. Drinking Beverage

You have created a silly argument. No one actually celebrates the Easter you have defined.

Quote:For the last time, Easter is not a fucking national holiday.


(18-01-2016 12:52 PM)Chas Wrote:  Only the Friday and the Monday are public holidays in NZ.

But more the the point, the Christians already determine the date of Easter every year.
Your argument is entirely without substance.



(19-01-2016 07:46 AM)Chas Wrote:  Your claim that by changing the formula for setting the date of Easter, the Christians are somehow 'hijacking' Easter is still silly.

Just annoying little comments you make.

They are facts. I am sorry you are annoyed by facts.

Quote:Easter is a holiday in NZ. Good Friday and Easter Monday are national holidays and
Easter Sunday has trading restrictions on it.

For many NZers, Easter isn't about the Christian beliefs. We don't celebrate Jesus' death or mythical resurrection. NZ is a secular country.

I have no issues with us as a country celebrating Easter, I do have an issue with my country looking to the Christians with regards to setting the date. I do have an issue if the Christians think they can tell our country that the rules to discovering the date have changed.

NZ, as a secular country ought to celebrate Easter how we see fit.

I get that you think my concerns are "silly". I don't consider them silly, they are real and important concerns to me.

What is silly is you calling it 'hijacking'. The Christians set the date now so them changing how they do it is not hijacking.

Quote:If someone at work comes up to me and takes the time to raise some concerns they have about something. I don't tell them that their concerns are silly. If my kids take the time to tell me that something concerns them, I don't tell them that their concerns are silly. If a friend comes to me with concerns I don't tell them that their concerns are silly. I acknowledge what they are saying as something that is important and concerning to them. I acknowledge that I have listened.

I explained why your use of the word 'hijack' was incorrect. Using that word as the basis for your argument makes the argument silly.

Quote:I'm not looking for you to agree with me.
I expect you would have concerns if your govt were looking to change gun laws. If you were to complain about proposed gun law changes I wouldn't tell you that your concerns are silly. I might however explain why I think the proposed gun law changes are a good idea, but I certainly would tell you that your concerns are silly.

That is not even remotely similar.

Quote:I take my holidays very seriously. I take the idea that my country is secular and that there ought to be a seperation of govt from religion seriously. I am concerned about a potential change to the Easter holidays date and i am concerned regarding the Christian churchs' ability to dictate to our govt when we are to have national holidays.

There shouldn't be a civic holiday called Easter at all. And the date changes every year - don't you understand that?

Quote:Sure in the big scheme of things this isn't likely to impact my day to day life. Never the less it is a concern of mine, it is related to religion and hence I felt the desire to get it off my chest by making a post on an atheist forum.

You did not express your concern at all accurately and you continue to mischaracterize the issue.

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21-01-2016, 08:33 AM
RE: Christians wanting to hijack Easter
(20-01-2016 01:01 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(20-01-2016 04:33 AM)Chas Wrote:  The origin of your country's celebration of an Easter holiday is undoubtedly due to its historically Christian society.
So if there is any 'hijacking' being done, it is by you, not the Christians.
Fact 1 - The origin of Easter is the celebration of the fertility goddess Estre
Fact 2 - Easter eggs and bunnies are symbols of fertility.
Fact 3 - NZ is a secular country
Fact 4 - NZ has a current way of calculating when Easter is to be celebrated.
Fact 5 - Many Christian organisations want to change how the date is to be calculated.
Fact 6 - I celebrate Easter each year
Fact 7 - NZ annual leave days apply to me.
Fact 8 - I have never celebrated the death and resurrection of the mythical Jesus.
Fact 9 - I don't care if the Christians want to celebrate Easter within their churches on a different date.
Fact 10 - I don't accept that my secular country ought to refer to the Catholic church on when to recognise this holiday in our secular country. The origin after all is the fertility goddess, Christianity has nothing to do with Easter and NZ isn't a Christian country.

If YOU personally think Easter IS owned by the Christian faith and that secular countries that officially celebrate Easter (by supporting laws of annual holidays and trade restrictions) OUGHT TO refer to Christian leaders as to when to set the dates, then that is your personal prerogative.

I am happy for you to disagree with me, I am happy for you to express your conflicting opinion.

But what I constantly find when attempting to have a conversation with Chas is that in your always arrogant, and derogatory way, your posts are dripping with filth and slime (when you disagree with someone). Which is probably an accurate reflection of your personality.

It's never a pleasure talking to you. If I met you in real life, I'd quickly learn that you are a person to avoid talking to or associating with.

Would one be allowed to ask you how New Zealand calculates the date for Easter now if it isn't the same method referring to lent and other Christian terminology?
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21-01-2016, 12:17 PM
RE: Christians wanting to hijack Easter
(21-01-2016 08:33 AM)DerFish Wrote:  Would one be allowed to ask you how New Zealand calculates the date for Easter now if it isn't the same method referring to lent and other Christian terminology?
I don't exactly know how they calculate it. I thought is was a formula based on the moon.

But reading a NZ article they say "Easter dates confirmed by Catholic Church."
I'm not happy about that because, as I have pointed out previously, NZ is a secular multi cultural country and Easter isn't a Christian thing, many many non Christians celebrate Easter with chocolate in the shape of eggs and bunnies and taking time off work and going holidays to beach side baches.

BUT, I am also not happy at the idea that the Churches suggesting that they may change the way Easter is calculated and that they expect our government to follow. They are assuming that they own Easter, where-as I am of they opinion that they do not own it. Hence my terminology "hijack". It is the government that own our holidays, they ought to be the ones telling us when the holidays fall. I'm not particularly happy to find out that my government bow down to the Catholic church on this.
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21-01-2016, 12:29 PM
RE: Christians wanting to hijack Easter
(21-01-2016 12:17 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(21-01-2016 08:33 AM)DerFish Wrote:  Would one be allowed to ask you how New Zealand calculates the date for Easter now if it isn't the same method referring to lent and other Christian terminology?
I don't exactly know how they calculate it. I thought is was a formula based on the moon.

It is a formula based on the moon (sort of), but that formula was devised by the Catholic church many centuries ago -- well, actually, I think they took it from the Jews, who use a similar method to determine the date of Passover. Hint: Passover and Easter are linked, and they are both definitely religious in origin. The fact that secular people observe a holiday doesn't take away its religious origin. Secular people celebrate Christmas, too, but to deny that it is a religious holiday is just silly (I think Chas already pointed that out).
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21-01-2016, 12:38 PM
RE: Christians wanting to hijack Easter
(21-01-2016 12:29 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(21-01-2016 12:17 PM)Stevil Wrote:  I don't exactly know how they calculate it. I thought is was a formula based on the moon.

It is a formula based on the moon (sort of), but that formula was devised by the Catholic church many centuries ago -- well, actually, I think they took it from the Jews, who use a similar method to determine the date of Passover. Hint: Passover and Easter are linked, and they are both definitely religious in origin. The fact that secular people observe a holiday doesn't take away its religious origin. Secular people celebrate Christmas, too, but to deny that it is a religious holiday is just silly (I think Chas already pointed that out).
The origins of Easter is the celebration of the goddess Estre. To deny that is just silly.
I would say that there was a time where NZ was a Christian country, but now we are secular.
It is beside the point what the origins are. I am only interested in what is now.
Now, NZ is secular.
I don't see why we look to the Christians to tell us when to have OUR holidays.
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21-01-2016, 12:44 PM
RE: Christians wanting to hijack Easter
(21-01-2016 12:38 PM)Stevil Wrote:  
(21-01-2016 12:29 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  It is a formula based on the moon (sort of), but that formula was devised by the Catholic church many centuries ago -- well, actually, I think they took it from the Jews, who use a similar method to determine the date of Passover. Hint: Passover and Easter are linked, and they are both definitely religious in origin. The fact that secular people observe a holiday doesn't take away its religious origin. Secular people celebrate Christmas, too, but to deny that it is a religious holiday is just silly (I think Chas already pointed that out).
The origins of Easter is the celebration of the goddess Estre. To deny that is just silly.
I would say that there was a time where NZ was a Christian country, but now we are secular.
It is beside the point what the origins are. I am only interested in what is now.
Now, NZ is secular.
I don't see why we look to the Christians to tell us when to have OUR holidays.

When did it become YOUR holiday?

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21-01-2016, 12:45 PM
RE: Christians wanting to hijack Easter
(21-01-2016 12:38 PM)Stevil Wrote:  I don't see why we look to the Christians to tell us when to have OUR holidays.

Cos no one gives a shit enough to change it? Personally I couldn't care less that SA follows Christian holidays.

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21-01-2016, 12:58 PM
RE: Christians wanting to hijack Easter
(21-01-2016 12:44 PM)ClydeLee Wrote:  
(21-01-2016 12:38 PM)Stevil Wrote:  The origins of Easter is the celebration of the goddess Estre. To deny that is just silly.
I would say that there was a time where NZ was a Christian country, but now we are secular.
It is beside the point what the origins are. I am only interested in what is now.
Now, NZ is secular.
I don't see why we look to the Christians to tell us when to have OUR holidays.

When did it become YOUR holiday?
Since I celebrate it each year with chocolate and holidays. My govt represents me. They set a national holiday, it becomes my holiday.
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