Christians wanting to hijack Easter
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22-01-2016, 02:48 PM
RE: Christians wanting to hijack Easter
(21-01-2016 11:36 PM)morondog Wrote:  
(21-01-2016 06:08 PM)Stevil Wrote:  I would be having issues if my government were to force change on all of NZers based on a change that Christians have decided upon. Regardless of our history and roots, we are now a secular country. It shouldn't matter what Christians think about Easter with regards to our government. At one stage govt and Christians were aligned, it doesn't matter that we diverge, our govt don't need to follow the Christian change in order to stay aligned. I, as a non Christian don't want to follow Christians.

It may simply make political and business sense to follow suit. I'm pretty sure no one in the NZ government really gives a shit about Easter or not, but if the majority want to stay on the Christian holiday scheme, then that's what'll happen. Even if it's not the majority, there could be good reasons (like if say Australia is on the Christian Easter plan) to follow suit, just from the point of view of business.

The United States invented Thanksgiving (or at least we are told we did), but when Canada decided to have a Thanksgiving they put it on a different day. SO N can have their Easter when ever they wish as far as I am concerned, of course I am not in the least concerned. It is no concern of mine!
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22-01-2016, 02:55 PM
RE: Christians wanting to hijack Easter
(22-01-2016 02:48 PM)DerFish Wrote:  
(21-01-2016 11:36 PM)morondog Wrote:  It may simply make political and business sense to follow suit. I'm pretty sure no one in the NZ government really gives a shit about Easter or not, but if the majority want to stay on the Christian holiday scheme, then that's what'll happen. Even if it's not the majority, there could be good reasons (like if say Australia is on the Christian Easter plan) to follow suit, just from the point of view of business.

The United States invented Thanksgiving (or at least we are told we did), but when Canada decided to have a Thanksgiving they put it on a different day. SO N can have their Easter when ever they wish as far as I am concerned, of course I am not in the least concerned. It is no concern of mine!

Canadian thanksgiving is earlier because our harvest is traditionally earlier because it's farther north. It's that simple.

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22-01-2016, 02:56 PM (This post was last modified: 22-01-2016 03:00 PM by Chas.)
RE: Christians wanting to hijack Easter
(22-01-2016 02:36 PM)cjlr Wrote:  
(22-01-2016 02:31 PM)Astreja Wrote:  True, that. However, I only have jurisdiction over the Northern Hemisphere version of the vernal equinox (although I occasionally do a shout-out to the people celebrating fall south of the equator).

I mean, I'd presume there are corresponding equinoctial observances for indigenous southern peoples, but you have to get pretty far into the subtropics for it to be a noticeable inflection point.

That's pretty much Patagonia, Tasmania, and NZ's South Island. Consider

OK, maybe a bit of Argentina.

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23-01-2016, 12:27 AM
RE: Christians wanting to hijack Easter
(22-01-2016 01:19 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  It's like gay marriage. It's such a non-issue for straight people you might as well just give it us gays because it effects us the most. Doesn't mean the government is bowing to every whim of the gays.
No, quite different.

The law against gays getting married was a specific restriction enforced by law stopping gay people from forming families with their loved one.

The removal of that law wasn't because no one gave a shit, it was because the law was unnecessary and conflicted with people's freedom to live their own lives. It was government butting in where it doesn't belong. Potentially locking up people who pose no threat to society.

Moving the date of Easter, although trivial to most of us (no-one has their freedoms legally removed) does show that our govt considers Easter to be the domain of Christians. I don't agree that it is their domain. I celebrate Easter but i am not a Christian. NZ isn't a Christian country. The holiday is a throwback to ancient pagan times. If our government is to maintain a seperation from religion then I don't see how we can change our holidays to align with Christians.
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23-01-2016, 12:29 AM
RE: Christians wanting to hijack Easter
(21-01-2016 11:36 PM)morondog Wrote:  It may simply make political and business sense to follow suit. I'm pretty sure no one in the NZ government really gives a shit about Easter or not, but if the majority want to stay on the Christian holiday scheme, then that's what'll happen. Even if it's not the majority, there could be good reasons (like if say Australia is on the Christian Easter plan) to follow suit, just from the point of view of business.
I see some benefit in being misaligned. When we are on holiday, we can book hotels in Aus or England at normal prices rather than at Easter holiday prices. We can go to amusement parks without having to queue in holiday queues.
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23-01-2016, 05:49 AM
RE: Christians wanting to hijack Easter
(23-01-2016 12:29 AM)Stevil Wrote:  
(21-01-2016 11:36 PM)morondog Wrote:  It may simply make political and business sense to follow suit. I'm pretty sure no one in the NZ government really gives a shit about Easter or not, but if the majority want to stay on the Christian holiday scheme, then that's what'll happen. Even if it's not the majority, there could be good reasons (like if say Australia is on the Christian Easter plan) to follow suit, just from the point of view of business.
I see some benefit in being misaligned. When we are on holiday, we can book hotels in Aus or England at normal prices rather than at Easter holiday prices. We can go to amusement parks without having to queue in holiday queues.

Fantastic, now convince the rest of the Kiwis Smile

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23-01-2016, 06:32 AM
RE: Christians wanting to hijack Easter
(23-01-2016 12:27 AM)Stevil Wrote:  
(22-01-2016 01:19 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  It's like gay marriage. It's such a non-issue for straight people you might as well just give it us gays because it effects us the most. Doesn't mean the government is bowing to every whim of the gays.
No, quite different.

The law against gays getting married was a specific restriction enforced by law stopping gay people from forming families with their loved one.

The removal of that law wasn't because no one gave a shit, it was because the law was unnecessary and conflicted with people's freedom to live their own lives. It was government butting in where it doesn't belong. Potentially locking up people who pose no threat to society.

Moving the date of Easter, although trivial to most of us (no-one has their freedoms legally removed) does show that our govt considers Easter to be the domain of Christians. I don't agree that it is their domain. I celebrate Easter but i am not a Christian. NZ isn't a Christian country. The holiday is a throwback to ancient pagan times. If our government is to maintain a seperation from religion then I don't see how we can change our holidays to align with Christians.

This logic still doesn't make sense.

You constant claim of it's a pagan holiday first, would still make you not secular if it was celebrated on that regard. Which it isn't. The Christians "hijacked" Easter over a thousand years ago. For hundreds of years it's been a Christian holiday, before New Zealand became New Zealand it was a Christian holiday. For every year in this time, it's been a Christian Holiday. The reason New Zealand began celebrating it was because it was a Christian Holiday. It never once stopped being a christian Holiday in the timeline of the last hundred years.

New Zealand is not secular on this issue and NEVER has been. Just because you celebrate it secularly and your nation is SUPPOSED to be secular. Doesn't mean it actually ever has been. You're acting like the government had this separation from the church on this holiday but it never did. New Zealand making the Friday before and Monday after Easter Public Holidays, didn't in any regard make Easter not a Christian Church based holiday.

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23-01-2016, 07:47 AM
RE: Christians wanting to hijack Easter
(23-01-2016 12:27 AM)Stevil Wrote:  
(22-01-2016 01:19 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  It's like gay marriage. It's such a non-issue for straight people you might as well just give it us gays because it effects us the most. Doesn't mean the government is bowing to every whim of the gays.
No, quite different.

The law against gays getting married was a specific restriction enforced by law stopping gay people from forming families with their loved one.

The removal of that law wasn't because no one gave a shit, it was because the law was unnecessary and conflicted with people's freedom to live their own lives. It was government butting in where it doesn't belong. Potentially locking up people who pose no threat to society.

Moving the date of Easter, although trivial to most of us (no-one has their freedoms legally removed) does show that our govt considers Easter to be the domain of Christians. I don't agree that it is their domain. I celebrate Easter but i am not a Christian. NZ isn't a Christian country. The holiday is a throwback to ancient pagan times. If our government is to maintain a seperation from religion then I don't see how we can change our holidays to align with Christians.

If your government is to maintain a separation from religion then there should be no Easter holiday at all. Drinking Beverage

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23-01-2016, 07:07 PM
RE: Christians wanting to hijack Easter
(23-01-2016 12:27 AM)Stevil Wrote:  
(22-01-2016 01:19 AM)earmuffs Wrote:  It's like gay marriage. It's such a non-issue for straight people you might as well just give it us gays because it effects us the most. Doesn't mean the government is bowing to every whim of the gays.
No, quite different.

The law against gays getting married was a specific restriction enforced by law stopping gay people from forming families with their loved one.

The removal of that law wasn't because no one gave a shit, it was because the law was unnecessary and conflicted with people's freedom to live their own lives. It was government butting in where it doesn't belong. Potentially locking up people who pose no threat to society.

Moving the date of Easter, although trivial to most of us (no-one has their freedoms legally removed) does show that our govt considers Easter to be the domain of Christians. I don't agree that it is their domain. I celebrate Easter but i am not a Christian. NZ isn't a Christian country. The holiday is a throwback to ancient pagan times. If our government is to maintain a seperation from religion then I don't see how we can change our holidays to align with Christians.

Easter is the domain of Christians, it's a Christian holiday...
Just because you don't see it that way doesn't make it not a Christian holiday.

Yes it has pagan roots but look at NZ as a whole, we are a vastly different country compared to 400 years ago. If you wanted everything to happen a certain way because it did so in the past than pull out your flax skirt good sir and get your poi on.

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23-01-2016, 11:18 PM
RE: Christians wanting to hijack Easter
(23-01-2016 07:47 AM)Chas Wrote:  If your government is to maintain a separation from religion then there should be no Easter holiday at all. Drinking Beverage
Perhaps true.

I don't think Easter has to be Christian. I do like the idea of a holiday centered around chocolate, probably more apt for Switzerland or Belgium than NZ, but we can appreciate it too.

But if NZ govt feel pressure to align with whatever the Christians want regarding this holiday, then perhaps we drop it.

Especially if they ever try to change it from "Easter" to Crucifixion and Resurrection Day. Perhaps that change will be the final straw for NZ to cut that tie.

In NZ we have atheists, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, Jews, a multitude of beliefs, just like many other countries. Christians don't come first.

But of course, if we drop it, we need to replace it otherwise we miss out on some holiday days. A four day break near the end of the warmer weather days is ideal for NZ.
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