Christopher Hitchens and the atheists' mistake ~ Deepak Chopra
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17-05-2011, 09:27 AM
 
Rainbow Christopher Hitchens and the atheists' mistake ~ Deepak Chopra
Christopher Hitchens and the atheists' mistake

Deepak Chopra
SFGate May 16, 2011


Monday, May 16, 2011

A few weeks ago the highly publicized atheist Christopher Hitchens wrote a letter to an annual convention of atheists justifying his position. Hitchens has based his career on being a gadfly, and he's an articulate, combative one who is widely read and noticed. Along with many others, I wondered how he would respond to the anxiety of his diagnosis of esophageal cancer. He seems to be fighting a losing battle, sadly. Death-bed conversions, which used to be common, aren't anymore, and Hitchens remains defiant in his beliefs.

Here are some expressions from his letter: LINK


*edit link fix* Rolleyes Embarrassing!
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17-05-2011, 11:23 AM
RE: Christopher Hitchens and the atheists' mistake ~ Deepak Chopra
Death bed conversions usd to be common? Maybe as reported by theists etc... It would be interesting to see some unbiased evidence. Of course that's impossible as it's a situation where theist stories and statements from a dying brain are important factors.

We all enter this world in the same way: naked; screaming; soaked in blood. But if you live your life right, that kind of thing doesn't have to stop there.
Dana Gould
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17-05-2011, 11:43 AM
 
RE: Christopher Hitchens and the atheists' mistake ~ Deepak Chopra
"The atheists I've met went through a period of personal disillusion with religion, and on that basis alone they became atheists. Could anything be more subjective for a crowd that decries subjectivity?"

Even so, a person arriving at atheism through personal or subjective disillusionment with religion is not somehow less than the odd person who has the privilege of arriving at the same position through disinterested sources. In any case, the upshot of those disillusioned with religion -- whether by subjective or disinterested means -- is highlighted in the word 'disillusioned' itself: one has lost their illusions. Such an event, however sudden or gradual, subjective or objective, would seem to me to be a step closer to a better life. And to take a subjective course that ends in an appreciation for factual and disinterested information does give one warrant for decrying the subjectivity of religion; especially since the subjectivity that goes along with religion comes neatly parcelled in the non-verifiable.
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17-05-2011, 01:42 PM
RE: Christopher Hitchens and the atheists' mistake ~ Deepak Chopra
The line in the sand he draws, and behind which he places ALL atheists, based on Hitchens profile is a serious straw-man fallacy...

Clearly this man suffers from the disease that plagues modern society (Hitchens included):
Polarization

Observer

Agnostic atheist
Secular humanist
Emotional rationalist
Disclaimer: Don’t mix the personal opinion above with the absolute and objective truth. Remember to think for yourself. Thank you.
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17-05-2011, 05:09 PM
RE: Christopher Hitchens and the atheists' mistake ~ Deepak Chopra
This article is depressing. Butchering what atheists believe.
Quote:Rhetoric is rhetoric, and in a rousing debate no one takes seriously that atheists are founts of decency and morality while sincere believers are all servile and superstitious. Can anyone seriously believe this? By calling all good things non-religious and all bad things religious, atheists have made a serious mistake.
Not every single action/event from religion is bad, and those of us who do(which is not all of us) argue that the concept of god/Religion has been overall detrimental to humanity are anti-theists, who do have decent grounds.

Quote:By making belief in God their enemy, atheists deprive themselves of what spirituality is really about: a process of inner growth...
They are either butchering the definition of "Spiritual" or don't realize that atheists can't find meaning and purpose in life without god.

Quote:By discounting the whole notion of spiritual awakening, atheists make a claim to false knowledge. They haven't walked the walk, yet somehow they know, with dead certainty, that Buddha, Socrates, Plato, Jesus, Confucius, Zoroaster, Saint Paul, Rumi, Kabir, the Prophet Muhammad, Rabindranath Tagore, and countless others aren't just wrong; they are stupid and blinkered compared to any everyday atheist today. I have my doubts. The atheists I've met went through a period of personal disillusion with religion, and on that basis alone they became atheists. Could anything be more subjective for a crowd that decries subjectivity? Could anything be more idiosyncratic for a group that claims to represent universal reason?
First, not all atheists are arrogant and walk around believing they are better than everyone else. Some do, sure, but not all. We believe we are right, but that doesn't necessarily mean we are better than you. Second of all that is ass backward logic. Since when we do have to prove without a doubt that all those claims are false? Our position is simple; no evidence, no belief.

I don't believe Jesus is the son of God until I see the long form birth certificate!
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17-05-2011, 06:06 PM
 
RE: Christopher Hitchens and the atheists' mistake ~ Deepak Chopra
I find it highly suspicious that Chopra would dare make a comment about atheists being a largely subjective lot. Chopra has an entire industry to uphold with his "rhetoric" about quantum reality and its intersection with a supposed spiritual reality. If using the knowable (quantum reality) to make pronouncements on the unknowable isn't just about as subjective as one can get (not to mention a dire misstep in logic), then I'm at a loss.
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17-05-2011, 06:33 PM
 
RE: Christopher Hitchens and the atheists' mistake ~ Deepak Chopra
Code:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgCq2T-v-Mo&feature=player_detailpage#t=471s

An interesting clip I watched some time ago about this subject during Hitchens interview with Anderson Cooper. If you have not watched the entire interview it is well worth the watch.
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17-05-2011, 07:06 PM
 
RE: Christopher Hitchens and the atheists' mistake ~ Deepak Chopra
I will take a chance and say, I have a better chance of actor Gerard Butler pinching my bum than I do of learning Christopher Hitchens made a death bed conversion to Theism.

Hear that Gerard? It's a challenge big man! Rowwwrrrrr! Scottish sexy! Rowwwwrrrr.

With respect to Deepak, does he really say anything? I mean, really?
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18-05-2011, 01:59 AM
RE: Christopher Hitchens and the atheists' mistake ~ Deepak Chopra
Chopra says in one breath that most atheists were theists who became "disillusioned", and in the next breath claims that none of them understand the benefits of spirituality because they "haven't walked the walk". Okay, so which is it? Do atheists have experience being theists or don't they? Do they know what they are rejecting when they dismiss religion as nonsense or have they grown up in a bubble where religion wasn't foisted on them at all? As many leading atheist speakers/writers at one time were very devout religious people who can quote the scriptures by rote (Matt Dillahunty, for example) Chopra is trying to throw some sand in the eyes of his readers with this claim that atheists don't know what they are talking about. Having been made a fool of by Hitchens in several debates, in which Hitchens demonstrated a deep knowledge of the various holy books, their histories, their writers, and their faults, Chopra should know better than anyone that atheists understand religion (he uses the word spirituality) all too well, and usually far better than the people who believe in it.

The way to see by Faith, is to shut the eye of Reason. - Ben Franklin
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18-05-2011, 02:54 AM
RE: Christopher Hitchens and the atheists' mistake ~ Deepak Chopra
From what I can read in this article, Chopra said a lot but at the same time he did not say anything I could find objective.

I, as a rational thinking atheist dont claim and I never will claim I have the absolute truth, as a rational thinking entity, I make questions, some of those questions are in most cases uncomfortable to hear, many people just play deaf when confronted with difficult questions, others will just twist and distort them as a defense mechanism, and some others would hear them and let themselves think about things outside their perspective, but I think asking such questions is a natural aspect of rational minds.

Quote: By making belief in God their enemy, atheists deprive themselves of what spirituality is really about: a process of inner growth.

Seriously? First of all, I dont consider the idea of dieties as an enemy of mine, thats completely absurd, I could disagree with theistic views, but equating this to the idea of being completely antagonistic towards them is asinine.

I dont think I lost anything. Inner growth is based on what you learn about life, good things, bad things, good choices, poor choices, etc., by equating spirituality and the natural process of aquiring knowledge and wisdom through experience, he is saying that atheists are just being immature, limited and narrow-minded. Just because things dont have a "sexy & appealing" explanation it does not mean they are not valid or meaningfull.

Quote: By discounting the whole notion of spiritual awakening, atheists make a claim to false knowledge.

Funny how they always try to shift the burden of proof on us. Spiritual awakening? If spiritual awakening is something to be considered as a serious issue, then why ancient humans who were not as advanced in science, technology, knowledge, even philosphy were not able to achieve great things just based on spirituality? I mean, they lived in an age where the notion of spirituality were stronger because of the lack of technology and empirical science like we know in this modern age, but why should we consider they were wiser than us?

I dont know why many people have this weird mind-set where they consider mayans, egyptians, etc. wiser than modern man just because they were more close to the "spirit world".

Also I like how some people uses the word "materialistic" as something to be ashamed of.

I also find this depressing, because Chopra is using Hitchens inminent death as a filghtramp to increase his own popularity IMO. I could bet that Chopra will write a "bestseller", tarnishing and distorting every word and deed of Hitchens to fit his own patchouli oozing view... Which is sad of course.

Even if I disagree with Hichens on some things, I think he is a moral and intelectually honest person unlike Chopra.

"The tendency to turn human judgments into divine commands makes religion one of the most dangerous forces in the world.”
-Georgia Harkness.

"La fe es patrimonio de los pendejos. (Faith is patrimony of the dumbfucks)."
-Diego Rivera
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