Chromosome condensation, amazing evidence of design
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17-07-2015, 04:04 PM
RE: Chromosome condensation, amazing evidence of design
(17-07-2015 12:58 PM)Godexists Wrote:  
(17-07-2015 09:07 AM)Chas Wrote:  Here, let me help educate you.

LOL.... sure.

http://elshamah.heavenforum.org/t1303-ch...osymbiotic

That site is one giant argument from incredulity. There is no science there.

Quote:
Quote:It is very clear that you have a cartoonish understanding of the theory of evolution.

ah yah ? how so ?

Every statement you make about evolution is about a strawman version. You don't know what the theory of evolution actually is.

Quote:
Quote:The rest of your ignorant dreck is just as easily refuted.

yeah, sure. And your mind does reside where ? and your thoughts ?

The mind is an emergent feature of a complex brain. It comprises electro-chemical patterns and processes.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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17-07-2015, 04:07 PM (This post was last modified: 17-07-2015 04:15 PM by docskeptic.)
RE: Chromosome condensation, amazing evidence of design
(16-07-2015 06:56 AM)Godexists Wrote:  Chromosome condensation, amazing evidence of design

My two cents worth.

While condensing the chromosomes, your "intelligent" designer forgot to:

1. Remove fossil viral DNA from our DNA (we are partly virus, you know. There are several thousand fossil viruses from at least 24 different families living in each one of us. These "fossil" viral sequences make up about 8% of our genome.)

2. Leave out oncogenes and proto-oncogenes which put all of us (including Jesus (!), who was after all, fully human) at risk for cancer.

3. Delete junk DNA. The DNA may be condensed but a vast portion (98%!) is non-coding. Why leave all that in there when you could do with less? Scientists have performed mega-deletions of junk DNA in lab animals with no deleterious effect.

4. Make non-functional genes functional. You and I can't make Vitamin C because we have a gene for it, but it doesn't work. No big deal in real life, because our diet is rich in Vitamin C. But take away the vitamin C and you and I (and Jesus!) would develop scurvy.

Still impressed by your "intelligent" design?

Doc
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17-07-2015, 04:31 PM (This post was last modified: 17-07-2015 04:38 PM by RocketSurgeon76.)
RE: Chromosome condensation, amazing evidence of design
(17-07-2015 04:07 PM)docskeptic Wrote:  4. Make non-functional genes functional. You and I can't make Vitamin C because we have a gene for it, but it doesn't work. No big deal in real life, because our diet is rich in Vitamin C. But take away the vitamin C and you and I (and Jesus!) would develop scurvy.

Still impressed by your "intelligent" design?

Doc

It's worse than that, Doc. The mutation that renders our gene for producing vitamin C useless (a condition called hypoascorbemia) is only four base-pairs, clipped out of the middle of an otherwise fully-functional gene. FOUR! Our ancestors weren't harmed by this because they lived in an environment that had lots of available ascorbic acid in their food... in fact, it turns out that chimps also have this exact mutation, in the exact same spot, meaning it happened before our ancestors split from the rest of the ape lineages... well before, as it was something like 20-25 MYA, if I recall correctly.

Didn't hurt our ancestors until they tried to get on board ships and cross oceans without fresh fruit/veggies, that is... those scurvy dogs! (Ironically, because they still have the full gene, dogs don't get scurvy.)

Edit to Add: Oh, also ironically, Creationist websites like to talk about hypoascorbemia because there are several other non-primate animals that have the condition, due to deletions in their gene... except they ignore the little tidbit that it's not the same four base-pairs! They claim that hypoascorbemia found in other animals (e.g. pigs) means it's not a sign of common inheritance, even though we share the same deletion mutation with chimps, gorillas, etc... but the pigs and other animals have a different set of mutations, showing that we're not in the same lineage despite the similar result of a modification of that gene in general. It's proof of our evolutionary heritage, and they instead use ignorance about how DNA works to promote Creationism. It's willful dishonesty. I popped one of Ken Hamm's disciples on this when he came to speak at my university, anticipating the question and having it in my files to hand to the professor who was debating him. This earned me the nickname of "That Evolution Guy" on campus, when people from the audience recognized me.

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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17-07-2015, 04:49 PM
RE: Chromosome condensation, amazing evidence of design
(17-07-2015 04:04 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(17-07-2015 12:58 PM)Godexists Wrote:  LOL.... sure.

http://elshamah.heavenforum.org/t1303-ch...osymbiotic

That site is one giant argument from incredulity. There is no science there.

This is what I really hate about these creationist fuckwads. People who aren't scientists will look at a site like that and be really impressed. "Wow, look at all that evidence. Look at all that jargon. Look at all those sciencey words. These guys must really know what they're talking about." It takes a real scientist to recognize that stuff for the bullshit that it is. Fortunately, we have some real scientists on this forum. But I wonder how many people are fooled by that crap into thinking that the creationist/ID people really have something?

What they definitely do have is massive dishonesty, and that really pisses me off. They must know that this stuff is all bullshit, and they try to pass it off as science anyway -- all in the service of their religious agenda. They don't actually care about science at all. Assholes.
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17-07-2015, 04:51 PM
RE: Chromosome condensation, amazing evidence of design
(17-07-2015 12:58 PM)Godexists Wrote:  yeah, sure. And your mind does reside where ? and your thoughts ?

Is yours in your ass ?
People with no brains or non-healthy brains (severly injued brains) have no thoughts. It can be proven on PET scans, EEG's and MRI scans. Too bad your profound ignorance of science precludes your thinking rationally and makes you knee-jerk only to "god done did it".

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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17-07-2015, 04:51 PM
RE: Chromosome condensation, amazing evidence of design
(17-07-2015 04:49 PM)Grasshopper Wrote:  
(17-07-2015 04:04 PM)Chas Wrote:  That site is one giant argument from incredulity. There is no science there.

This is what I really hate about these creationist fuckwads. People who aren't scientists will look at a site like that and be really impressed. "Wow, look at all that evidence. Look at all that jargon. Look at all those sciencey words. These guys must really know what they're talking about." It takes a real scientist to recognize that stuff for the bullshit that it is. Fortunately, we have some real scientists on this forum. But I wonder how many people are fooled by that crap into thinking that the creationist/ID people really have something?

What they definitely do have is massive dishonesty, and that really pisses me off. They must know that this stuff is all bullshit, and they try to pass it off as science anyway -- all in the service of their religious agenda. They don't actually care about science at all. Assholes.

People tend to side with things that sound good to them, instead of being skeptical and caring more about what is actually true. To be skeptical and to research things takes actual effort, and most people allow their brains to go down the path of least resistance, which is ignorance.

Official ordained minister of the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Please pm me with prayer requests to his noodly goodness. Remember, he boiled for your sins and loves you. Carbo Diem! RAmen.
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17-07-2015, 04:57 PM (This post was last modified: 17-07-2015 06:28 PM by RocketSurgeon76.)
RE: Chromosome condensation, amazing evidence of design
Wow, it's amazing what you can forget in 20 years. I must offer a Self-correction. (Because it's what THINKING ATHEISTS do.) It is not four base pairs, but seven exons out of twelve total that were deleted, in the final enzyme-production "factory" for L-gulonolactone oxidase, the enzyme needed for final synthesis of the ascorbic acid we need, and which most of the animal kingdom has. Deletions in other (non-primate) species remains different from ours, though some have a few of the same exon deletions. Apparently, in us, it was MUCH longer ago than 25 million years... according to the Wikipedia article:

"Loss of GULO activity in the primate order occurred about 63 million years ago, at about the time it split into the suborders Haplorhini (which lost the enzyme activity) and Strepsirrhini (which retained it). The haplorhines ("simple nosed") primates, which cannot make vitamin C enzymatically, include the tarsiers and the simians (apes, monkeys and humans). The strepsirrhines (bent or wet-nosed) primates, which are still able to make vitamin C enzymatically, include lorises, galagos, pottos, and, to some extent, lemurs."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L-gulonolactone_oxidase

http://www.ihop-net.org/UniPub/iHOP/gismo/88910.html

"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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17-07-2015, 07:10 PM
RE: Chromosome condensation, amazing evidence of design
(17-07-2015 01:54 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Abiogenessis is hardly a "failed theory" You are just totally ignorant of experts in he field. Here is a Nobel winner presenting, and you cannot refute one thing he says.





please summarize what convinces you in his presentation that abiogenesis actually works. thanks. ( i hardly doubt you will do so, and most probably you did not watch the video )
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17-07-2015, 07:14 PM
RE: Chromosome condensation, amazing evidence of design
(17-07-2015 02:26 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  Ugh. I so want to jump in when I see stuff like that "no ozone" post. We know damned well that there was no ozone because of the lack of oxygen. Land life had to wait in the safety of the ocean for most of the history of life on earth before there was enough oxygen from photosynthetic sea life to provide the necessary screen that allowed land to be colonized. That is exactly what we find in the fossil record.

So when they say, "This is a problem for evolutionists", it just makes me want to scream!

You can't be THAT dense, acting like it's something no one thought of. You can't! So either you're so delusional as to be wholly unreachable by logic/reason (or, really the English language), or else you're a troll.

there is no evidence for a reduced atmosphere.

http://elshamah.heavenforum.org/t1556-wh...atmosphere

Over the last 20 years though, geologists have more carefully studied those lower rock layers of the earth called the Precambrian strata and they have concluded generally that those oldest rocks are very rich in oxygen. For example, one of the oldest sedimentary rocks de­scribed and discovered by geologists on the earth has banded iron formation, and the major element in this rock is not iron, but is oxygen. And there are very many oxygen-rich rocks buried in the earth.

In fact, geologists have recently discovered sulfate deposits, sulfur and oxygen combined together and not sulfur combined with a metal such as lead or zinc. And geologists have discov­ered these oxidized iron deposits. Evidences of oxidation like soil development and many things are causing the evolutionists to question the whole reducing atmosphere scenario.

Zircons have been identified that carry signatures identifying them with the Hadean – and zircons are remarkably stable once formed. Using zircons dated to almost 4.4 Ga, the researchers have analysed their redox state (a measure of the degree of oxygenation of the mineral). This gives a handle on the type of gases that would have been outgassed by the magmas, and so, according to these models of Earth history, the type of atmosphere that would have been formed.

It is important to realise what was predicted by prevailing theories: the redox state of the magmas with which the zircons were associated was expected to be strongly reducing. This prediction is a necessary part of the Earth having a reducing atmosphere in the Hadean. The research findings did not confirm the prediction.
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17-07-2015, 07:18 PM
RE: Chromosome condensation, amazing evidence of design
(17-07-2015 02:31 PM)Stevil Wrote:  How do you have absolutely nothing at the beginning of the physical world ?

Quote:How do you have an intelligent mind without a biological brain?

http://elshamah.heavenforum.org/t1284-ne...ht=dualism

[quote]How do you have an intelligent thought without space or time?

http://www.reasonablefaith.org/god-time-and-eternity

Quote:How do you detect/observe this godly intelligent mind?

1. through Gods revelation in the bible
2. through Gods revelation in the natural world, which evidence his power and intelligence.
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