Chromosome condensation, amazing evidence of design
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17-07-2015, 07:42 PM
RE: Chromosome condensation, amazing evidence of design
(17-07-2015 04:04 PM)Chas Wrote:  The mind is an emergent feature of a complex brain. It comprises electro-chemical patterns and processes.

how do you possibly know ? answer. You dont know.
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17-07-2015, 07:44 PM
RE: Chromosome condensation, amazing evidence of design
(17-07-2015 04:51 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  People with no brains or non-healthy brains (severly injued brains) have no thoughts.

can you play a piano totally damaged, or without cords ?
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17-07-2015, 07:45 PM
RE: Chromosome condensation, amazing evidence of design
(17-07-2015 07:14 PM)Godexists Wrote:  
(17-07-2015 02:26 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  Ugh. I so want to jump in when I see stuff like that "no ozone" post. We know damned well that there was no ozone because of the lack of oxygen. Land life had to wait in the safety of the ocean for most of the history of life on earth before there was enough oxygen from photosynthetic sea life to provide the necessary screen that allowed land to be colonized. That is exactly what we find in the fossil record.

So when they say, "This is a problem for evolutionists", it just makes me want to scream!

You can't be THAT dense, acting like it's something no one thought of. You can't! So either you're so delusional as to be wholly unreachable by logic/reason (or, really the English language), or else you're a troll.

there is no evidence for a reduced atmosphere.

reducing

Quote:http://elshamah.heavenforum.org/t1556-wh...atmosphere

Over the last 20 years though, geologists have more carefully studied those lower rock layers of the earth called the Precambrian strata and they have concluded generally that those oldest rocks are very rich in oxygen. For example, one of the oldest sedimentary rocks de­scribed and discovered by geologists on the earth has banded iron formation, and the major element in this rock is not iron, but is oxygen. And there are very many oxygen-rich rocks buried in the earth.

In fact, geologists have recently discovered sulfate deposits, sulfur and oxygen combined together and not sulfur combined with a metal such as lead or zinc. And geologists have discov­ered these oxidized iron deposits. Evidences of oxidation like soil development and many things are causing the evolutionists to question the whole reducing atmosphere scenario.

That oxygen would have come from where? The atmosphere? That would imply there would eventually be no free atmospheric oxygen as it would be locked up in minerals.

Quote:Zircons have been identified that carry signatures identifying them with the Hadean – and zircons are remarkably stable once formed. Using zircons dated to almost 4.4 Ga, the researchers have analysed their redox state (a measure of the degree of oxygenation of the mineral). This gives a handle on the type of gases that would have been outgassed by the magmas, and so, according to these models of Earth history, the type of atmosphere that would have been formed.

It is important to realise what was predicted by prevailing theories: the redox state of the magmas with which the zircons were associated was expected to be strongly reducing. This prediction is a necessary part of the Earth having a reducing atmosphere in the Hadean. The research findings did not confirm the prediction.

It doesn't really matter very much that it was not necessarily a reducing atmosphere except that makes the Miller-Urey experiment far less interesting.

The key is that there was no atmospheric oxygen in a hot early-Earth scenario.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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17-07-2015, 07:48 PM
RE: Chromosome condensation, amazing evidence of design
(17-07-2015 07:10 PM)Godexists Wrote:  
(17-07-2015 01:54 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  Abiogenessis is hardly a "failed theory" You are just totally ignorant of experts in he field. Here is a Nobel winner presenting, and you cannot refute one thing he says.





please summarize what convinces you in his presentation that abiogenesis actually works. thanks. ( i hardly doubt you will do so, and most probably you did not watch the video )

I not only have watched this video, but the entire series.
You see, fool, education concerning complex subjects, (of which you obviously have none) cannot be "summarized". I suggest instead you actually go to school some day, and take math, chemistry and physics ... so you can at least BEGIN to understand what this Nobel winner is talking about. Meanwhile, there is NOT ONE major university in the entire world that does not build it's scientific models assuming Evolution is true, and the best model we have. In fact the very doctors YOU go to also use it everyday. So, unless you just pray when you are ill, you are a hypocrite of the highest order.

Go try to sell you bullshit religious snake oil somewhere else. We're not interested in crap cults here.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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17-07-2015, 07:50 PM
RE: Chromosome condensation, amazing evidence of design
(17-07-2015 07:10 PM)Godexists Wrote:  ...
i hardly doubt you will do so,
...

I hardly doubt it too.

Big Grin

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17-07-2015, 07:52 PM
RE: Chromosome condensation, amazing evidence of design
(17-07-2015 07:50 PM)DLJ Wrote:  
(17-07-2015 07:10 PM)Godexists Wrote:  ...
i hardly doubt you will do so,
...

I hardly doubt it too.

Big Grin

Why.
Thank you both. Thumbsup
Tongue

Thumbsup

Facepalm

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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17-07-2015, 07:55 PM
RE: Chromosome condensation, amazing evidence of design
(17-07-2015 07:44 PM)Godexists Wrote:  
(17-07-2015 04:51 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote:  People with no brains or non-healthy brains (severly injued brains) have no thoughts.

can you play a piano totally damaged, or without cords ?

Fallacy of the false analogy, you fool.
And you just refuted YOURSELF, and answered your own fucking question.

Weeping

Maybe you should take a little break, and pray to Jebus to send you some help here.
You're not doing so well.
Maybe Biola will revoke your acceptance.
Consider

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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17-07-2015, 08:02 PM
RE: Chromosome condensation, amazing evidence of design
(17-07-2015 07:14 PM)Godexists Wrote:  there is no evidence for a reduced atmosphere.

http://elshamah.heavenforum.org/t1556-wh...atmosphere

Over the last 20 years though, geologists have more carefully studied those lower rock layers of the earth called the Precambrian strata and they have concluded generally that those oldest rocks are very rich in oxygen. For example, one of the oldest sedimentary rocks de­scribed and discovered by geologists on the earth has banded iron formation, and the major element in this rock is not iron, but is oxygen. And there are very many oxygen-rich rocks buried in the earth.

In fact, geologists have recently discovered sulfate deposits, sulfur and oxygen combined together and not sulfur combined with a metal such as lead or zinc. And geologists have discov­ered these oxidized iron deposits. Evidences of oxidation like soil development and many things are causing the evolutionists to question the whole reducing atmosphere scenario.

Zircons have been identified that carry signatures identifying them with the Hadean – and zircons are remarkably stable once formed. Using zircons dated to almost 4.4 Ga, the researchers have analysed their redox state (a measure of the degree of oxygenation of the mineral). This gives a handle on the type of gases that would have been outgassed by the magmas, and so, according to these models of Earth history, the type of atmosphere that would have been formed.

It is important to realise what was predicted by prevailing theories: the redox state of the magmas with which the zircons were associated was expected to be strongly reducing. This prediction is a necessary part of the Earth having a reducing atmosphere in the Hadean. The research findings did not confirm the prediction.

The fact that you called it a "Reduced", rather than Reducing, Atmosphere (except when quoting someone else by cut-and-paste) tells me you don't know what you're talking about, and are just parroting things you don't understand. It's not a minor typo; it's a basic chemistry definition. It'd be like someone's girlfriend trying to fit in with her boyfriend's sports buddies by saying "Look, that guy scored a Touchpoint!"

Your article cited is a nightmare of quote-mining. For instance, the one that says "breathable atmosphere in ancient environment" cites presence of oxygen "as early as 3 billion years ago"... that'd be roughly ONE BILLION YEARS after the abiogenesis even we're talking about. It says the presents of sulfates in deep-well gold mines may indicate oxygen in the atmosphere as early as 3.5 billion years ago, much earlier than first thought... but that's still 500,000,000 years after the abiogenesis chemistry we're talking about.

So, deliberately dishonest? Or just poor english comprehension skills? Try again.

Going to have to throw the flag on that one. 15 yards for quote mining. Repeat First Down.
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"Theology made no provision for evolution. The biblical authors had missed the most important revelation of all! Could it be that they were not really privy to the thoughts of God?" - E. O. Wilson
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17-07-2015, 08:13 PM
RE: Chromosome condensation, amazing evidence of design
(17-07-2015 07:42 PM)Godexists Wrote:  
(17-07-2015 04:04 PM)Chas Wrote:  The mind is an emergent feature of a complex brain. It comprises electro-chemical patterns and processes.

how do you possibly know ? answer. You dont know.

Nope. Neuro-science knows a lot that you (obviously) have never been exposed to. You REALLY have no science AT ALL do you ?

Answer : google Scientific American, and 'consciousness'
He DOES know. You obviously know next to nothing. But thanks for making a fool of yourself, and demonstrating your ignorance with every post.

Insufferable know-it-all.Einstein God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.
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17-07-2015, 08:16 PM
RE: Chromosome condensation, amazing evidence of design
(17-07-2015 02:56 PM)RocketSurgeon76 Wrote:  just keep thinking Miller-Urey is legitimate. Even the "radicals" at the National Institutes of Health and the Royal Society.

If its legitimate, why have we not created life yet ??

(17-07-2015 01:05 PM)Godexists Wrote:  Now that's just silly. It's not antimatter. Both are produced. Of course! Right-handed simply doesn't link up with left-handed, that's all. Being all one-handed supports life evolving from a small, localized early group. If we found both types of life on earth, it would mean that proto-life evolved independently in two spots on the planet. It'd be more shocking than what we do find. Which is exactly what one would expect, if one were honest.

http://labquimica.files.wordpress.com/20...alidad.pdf
The origin of the homochirality of amino acids is still an unsolved issue. There must have been a definite process to ensure that the sequence-based mechanism functioned in the RNA world. Future experiments will provide insights regarding the basis using which this mystery can be solved.


http://microbewiki.kenyon.edu/index.php/...bial_World
Enantiomers are molecules that are mirror-images of each other. Today, amino acids and sugars exist in only one enantiomeric form in most biological systems on earth. This homochirality remains one of the greatest unsolved mysteries to scientists.


http://www.cnrs.fr/Cnrspresse/n386/html/en386a11.htm
However, the question of the origin of biological homochirality remains as yet unanswered.


http://origins.harvard.edu/event/physica...ochirality
left and right-handed molecules of a compound will form in equal amounts (a racemic mixture) when we synthesize them in the laboratory in the absence of some type of directing template.


http://www.teknoscienze.com/Articles/Chi...qvM17Qucvk

Several mechanisms have been proposed for elucidating the origins of the chirality of organic compounds, such as circularly polarized light (CPL) (3) and quartz (4); however, a suitable amplification process for chirality is required to reach single-handedness of biological compounds (biological homochirality)

(17-07-2015 01:05 PM)Godexists Wrote:  What?! That doesn't even make sense. Life hands its information down to the next generation.

what is its origin ?

Darwins doubt, pg.268

Intelligent agents, due to their rationality and consciousness, have demonstrated the power to produce specified or functional information in the form of linear sequence-specific arrangements of characters. Digital and alphabetic forms of information routinely arise from intelligent agents. A computer user who traces the information on a screen back to its source invariably comes to a mind— a software engineer or programmer. The information in a book or inscription ultimately derives from a writer or scribe. Our experience-based knowledge of information flow confirms that systems with large amounts of specified or functional information invariably originate from an intelligent source. The generation of functional information is "habitually associated with conscious activity." Our uniform experience confirms this obvious truth. It also suggests, therefore, that intelligent design meets the key "causal adequacy" requirement of a good historical scientific explanation. Certainly, intelligence is a "cause now in operation" capable of generating functional or specified information in a digital form. As I write this, my mind is generating specified information. Intelligent agents generate information in the form of software code, ancient inscriptions, books, encrypted military codes, and much else. And since we know of no "presently acting" materialistic cause that also generates large amounts14 of specified information (especially in a digital or alphabetic form), only intelligent design meets the causal adequacy requirement of a historical scientific explanation. In other words, our uniform experience of cause and effect shows that intelligent design is the only known cause of the origin of large amounts of functionally specified digital information. It follows that the great infusion of such information in the Cambrian explosion points decisively to an intelligent cause.

Intelligent design stands alone as an explanation for the origin of genetic information for another reason: purposive agents have just those necessary powers that natural selection lacks as a condition of its causal adequacy. We have seen that natural selection lacks the ability to generate novel information precisely because it can only act after new functional information has arisen. Natural selection can favor new proteins and genes, but only after they perform some function (influencing reproductive output). The job of generating new functional genes, proteins, and systems of proteins therefore falls entirely to random mutations. Yet without functional criteria to guide a search through the space of possible sequences, random variation is probabilistically doomed. What is needed is not just a source of variation (i.e., the freedom to search a space of possibilities) or a mode of selection that can operate after the fact of a successful search, but instead a means of selection that (a) operates during a search—before success—and that (b) is guided by information about or knowledge of a functional target.

Quote:Also nonsense. The immune system functions to protect from invading organisms. The early organisms wouldn't have had to worry about that until they got complex enough to get invaded.

haha. How do you know they were not complex enough ? Laugh out loadBowing


Quote:As the "evolutionary arms race" of invaders vs. invaded got going, they developed ever-increasing methods of attack and defense. Again, exactly what we'd expect to find. There is absolutely nothing in evolution that says it all had to be there as-is, today... that's a red herring and a strawman argument in one.

perfect example of pseudo science.

(17-07-2015 01:05 PM)Godexists Wrote:  5.The sugar found in the backbone of both DNA and RNA, ribose, has been particularly problematic, as the most prebiotically plausible chemical reaction schemes have typically yielded only a small amount of ribose mixed with a diverse assortment of other sugar molecules.

Quote:*sih* Same answer as the right/left handedness. Why does it shock you that out of several options, life went only one of those ways, and since all life is descended from common ancestry, we kept that way?

you seem not to be aware that to make these ribose sugars, its a extremely complex process, right ? The proposed prebiotic pathway leading to this sugar, the formose reaction, is especially problematic.

Consider ribose. The proposed prebiotic pathway leading to this sugar, the formose reaction, is especially problematic.

Formose reaction

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formose_reaction

The formose reaction is of great importance to the question of the origin of life as it explains part of the path from simple formaldehyde to complex sugars like ribose and from there to RNA. In one experiment simulating early Earth conditions, pentoses formed from mixtures of formaldehyde, glyceraldehyde, and borate minerals such as colemanite (Ca2B6O115H2O) or kernite (Na2B4O7).[4] Both formaldehyde and glycolaldehyde have been observed spectroscopically in outer space, making the formose reaction of particular interest to the field of astrobiology.

Aldol reaction

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aldol_reaction

The aldol reaction is a means of forming carbon–carbon bonds in organic chemistry.Discovered independently by Charles-Adolphe Wurtz and Alexander Borodin in 1872, the reaction combines two carbonyl compounds (the original experiments used aldehydes) to form a new β-hydroxy carbonyl compound. These products are known as aldols, from the aldehyde + alcohol, a structural motif seen in many of the products. Aldol structural units are found in many important molecules, whether naturally occurring or synthetic. For example, the aldol reaction has been used in the large-scale production of the commodity chemical pentaerythritol[11] and the synthesis of the heart disease drug Lipitor (atorvastatin, calcium salt).

and aldose-ketose isomerizations.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lobry_de_B...sformation

In carbohydrate chemistry, the Lobry de Bruyn–van Ekenstein transformation also known as the Lobry de Bruyn–Alberda–van Ekenstein transformation is the base or acid catalyzed transformation of an aldose into the ketose isomer or vice versa, with a tautomeric enediol as reaction intermediate. Ketoses may be transformed into 3-ketoses, etcetera. The enediol is also an intermediate for the epimerization of an aldose or ketose.

Quote:Dr. Catharine Neish at the Goddard Spaceflight Center[/url], because you clearly understand this stuff better than she does. Rolleyes

i maybe don't. But the author, John Michael Fischer , certainly does.

Quote:What? Then what the fuck is a glycoprotein?

LOL.... you have really no clue what you argue about, isnt it ??

http://elshamah.heavenforum.org/t2071-ca...d-proteins

Glycoprotein 8

Glycoproteins are proteins that contain oligosaccharide chains (glycans) covalently attached to polypeptide side-chains. The carbohydrate is attached to the protein in a cotranslational or posttranslational modification. This process is known as glycosylation. Secreted extracellular proteins are often glycosylated. In proteins that have segments extending extracellularly, the extracellular segments are also glycosylated. Glycoproteins are often important integral membrane proteins, where they play a role in cell–cell interactions.

Quote:Again, this is one you're going to have to explain to the scientists at NASA, because you're clearly better-informed than they are. Rolleyes

Laugh out loadLaugh out load

The hydrothermal-vent theory

http://elshamah.heavenforum.org/t1394-th...ent-theory

http://www.csj.jp/journals/bcsj/bc-cont/...10349.html

Submarine hydrothermal systems (SHSs) have been thought of as a suitable environment for the origin of life subsequent to the abiotic synthesis of organic molecules. However, it has been pointed out that bioorganic molecules, such as amino acids, are easily degraded at a high temperature, and thus not likely to survive for the next step of chemical evolution in a SHS environment.


http://physwww.mcmaster.ca/~higgsp/3D03/...ghTemp.pdf

The problem with monomers is bad enough,but it is worse with polymers,e.g.,RNA and DNA (Lindahl1993),whose stability in the absence of efficient repair enzymes is too low to maintain genetic integrity iyperthermophiles. RNA and DNA are clearly too unstable to exist in a hot prebiotic environment.The existence of an RNA world with ribose appears to be incompatible with the idea of a hot origin of life.

Quote:Are we seeing a picture, here? Will you admit that you've presented not only poor data, but what amounts to gobbletygook, designed to fool people who don't know science with some pseudoscientific gobbletygook that only sounds good to the ignorant seeking comfort for their ignorance?

comedy gold. haha Bowing
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