Church and Gays
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10-02-2012, 09:35 AM
Church and Gays
A church in Des Moines, IA had a message on its sign this week that said "Gay is not Okay". This created quite a stir. The pastor changed the sign but says his sermon will remain the same. There will be a large protest sunday at the church. My question is, With what is in the bible, why are people surprised at this and why are Gay people religious?

You can see the sign at Desmoinesregister.com.
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10-02-2012, 10:07 AM
RE: Church and Gays
Here's my guess - there's a subtle distinction made among the believers that the act of homosexuality should be condemned but not the homosexual. Hate the sin, love the sinner etc. Most people are probably interpreting the sign to indicate the sinner and not the sin, therefore the uproar.

I think in fact they hate both the sin and sinner, but they also know that that's an untenable public position to take, at least in the US. In other words, the sign reflects their actual position, not the cleaned up for public consumption position.

I say, whatever consenting adults want to do with each other is fine with me.
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10-02-2012, 10:23 AM
RE: Church and Gays
(10-02-2012 09:35 AM)Jhawk13 Wrote:  A church in Des Moines, IA had a message on its sign this week that said "Gay is not Okay".

"Being a bigot is not Okay"

The old gods are dead, let's invent some new ones before something really bad happens.
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10-02-2012, 10:26 AM
RE: Church and Gays
I think Jesus was Gay.. but that's my opinion of him.

Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. -- Voltaire
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10-02-2012, 11:17 AM
RE: Church and Gays
(10-02-2012 10:26 AM)ddrew Wrote:  I think Jesus was Gay.. but that's my opinion of him.

This guy has an interesting perspective on that question:




Religious disputes are like arguments in a madhouse over which inmate really is Napoleon.
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10-02-2012, 11:20 AM
RE: Church and Gays
Many people of differing genders and sexualities are still raised in religious homes and live in primarily religious areas. When you feel like you have nowhere to go the welcoming arms of a church are very desireable. A transsexual I often speak to colleges with grew up in Alabama and left to Missouri to get her transitioning started. When she was having a hard time she tried to go to a baptist church since that's where she was always taught to search for answers. they kicked her out, sounds like a good reason to stop right? Someone she met in Missouri suggested she come to their Universalist church, and she went was met by the preacher who sat and talked with her a while and was even given food and money due to her circumstances. Seems pretty obvious she liked this group right?

In many areas those of differing gender or sexuality have very difficult lives with sometimes few contacts. Church connections are a huge deal and that feeling of connectedness is hard to give up. Just remember that like any believer a gay or trans believer is simply choosing one part of the religion to ignore. I've known plenty who both embrace their desires and find them sins within the church. Cognitive dissonance allows for any combination.

I'm not a non believer, I believe in the possibility of anything. I just don't let the actuality of something be determined by a 3rd party.
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10-02-2012, 11:38 AM
RE: Church and Gays
(10-02-2012 10:07 AM)Jeff Wrote:  Here's my guess - there's a subtle distinction made among the believers that the act of homosexuality should be condemned but not the homosexual. Hate the sin, love the sinner etc. Most people are probably interpreting the sign to indicate the sinner and not the sin, therefore the uproar.

I think in fact they hate both the sin and sinner, but they also know that that's an untenable public position to take, at least in the US. In other words, the sign reflects their actual position, not the cleaned up for public consumption position.

I say, whatever consenting adults want to do with each other is fine with me.

I think this is it, for the most part. Most churches wouldn't actually refuse a repentant person from entry to the church. Most would welcome them, nearly regardless of their sin- so long as they are willing to stop sinning. Homosexuality, in their mind, can be ignored and one does not "need" to engage in homosexual acts. But the sign verbiage does suggest the person is not okay.

Most of us would agree that it's a terribly destructive and old view of sexuality. It's terribly unfortunate that an old, dusty, and way outdated book anchors so many peoples' thoughts and ideals to a time when anything and everything even slightly different from the norm was met with hostility. In many ways the church has changed and adapted with the advancement of society- it must, if it wishes to remain relevant. But in many ways it still anchors people to an ancient time when morality was, in my mind, very questionable. Today we have a luxury of considering many grey situations, rather than everything being black and white.

We now know that sexuality is something you're born with, and you can't force it to change. The church in general can never accept anything that doesn't align with what is written by ancient priests and kings who desired to maintain control over their little part of the world. The church can accept the people, though. But they must agree to ignore their own sexuality and conform to the norms of dead people from thousands of years ago in order to be accepted by the living today. They will have to entirely deny their own desires for the rest of their life. What a horrible captivity they would force upon their church members. But, even worse, they want to enforce their ideals on everyone outside their church too. So that even people who want nothing to do with the church's ancient laws are still locked down by them.
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10-02-2012, 11:41 AM
RE: Church and Gays
(10-02-2012 10:23 AM)Thomas Wrote:  
(10-02-2012 09:35 AM)Jhawk13 Wrote:  A church in Des Moines, IA had a message on its sign this week that said "Gay is not Okay".

"Being a bigot is not Okay"

But putting up a sign on your private property is okay. Who cares if they think gay is not okay?

“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect.”

-Mark Twain
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10-02-2012, 11:52 AM
RE: Church and Gays
(10-02-2012 11:41 AM)germanyt Wrote:  
(10-02-2012 10:23 AM)Thomas Wrote:  
(10-02-2012 09:35 AM)Jhawk13 Wrote:  A church in Des Moines, IA had a message on its sign this week that said "Gay is not Okay".

"Being a bigot is not Okay"

But putting up a sign on your private property is okay. Who cares if they think gay is not okay?

They have a right to do so. Others have a right to protest their views and tell them what they think about it.
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10-02-2012, 11:53 AM
RE: Church and Gays
(10-02-2012 11:52 AM)kineo Wrote:  
(10-02-2012 11:41 AM)germanyt Wrote:  
(10-02-2012 10:23 AM)Thomas Wrote:  
(10-02-2012 09:35 AM)Jhawk13 Wrote:  A church in Des Moines, IA had a message on its sign this week that said "Gay is not Okay".

"Being a bigot is not Okay"

But putting up a sign on your private property is okay. Who cares if they think gay is not okay?

They have a right to do so. Others have a right to protest their views and tell them what they think about it.


I agree.

“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect.”

-Mark Twain
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