Church rituals and ceremonies
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09-06-2014, 02:20 PM
Church rituals and ceremonies
I'm kind of curious about those of you raised in a religious homes and how you have contended without the ritual of church. I'm talking about the actual ceremony, the mass or whatever your church had going on. From reading so many ex-theists posts many have had friends and family reject them and some of you miss the social aspect of church. But do any of you miss the rituals and ceremonies too? And if so, have you found a way to replace them with other kinds of non religious ceremonies?

Do you think we need ritual and ceremony in our lives?

I was raised in an atheist home but always loved watching rituals from different cultures. It's all so theatrical.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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09-06-2014, 02:31 PM
RE: Church rituals and ceremonies
I wasn't exactly raised in a religious home (dad atheist, mum indifferent, but grandma insisted on making us good little Christians) and I never really cared about any ceremonies.

Today I feel that the Christian ones are totally stupid because they are all about doing things "with God's blessing", as if they don't really count if you do them otherwise. Some are especially funny and/or disturbing, like some spitting action that takes place in baptisms and the painful crying of babies when they are dipped into the water.

I don't really care for ceremonies, but the pagans here have some cool ones. I once witnessed one under the Acropolis at night with a full moon, they were walking with some slow drumming and handed out small olive branches. It was kinda cool.

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09-06-2014, 03:19 PM
RE: Church rituals and ceremonies
If it makes people "mindful" of behaving in a certain way and that behaviour is based on a sound moral foundation, then great. It's like lighting incense or dancing, part of life's rich tapestry...

It's when people get lost in the ceremony and think that engaging in these acts is more important than the behaviour towards others when it falls down, when they think that performing ritutals sets them apart, makes them better and will ensure them a place in "heaven" or give them an advantage over others that it become perverted and wrong.

That is the criticism I have heard from some Muslims, for example, of the wearing of headscarves by women. Some Muslims point out that women did not used to wear them and there is nothing in their religion that says they have to. Older women used to wear them simply to protect their hair or for fashion but then it became something which Muslim women started doing to show that they were more devout, better than others.

Same with Christianity, where a lot of Christians simply don't behave in a Christian way at all but go to church because they think it will save them. Some people, a former boss of mine, are complete bastards in their daily lives, treat people like dirt, but go off to Church and are at the head of the procession on Easter Sunday, probably because they know what awful people they are.

Here we don't have that dilemma. Many people here are moral nihilists and treating people like shit is just part of their persona and something they enjoy. They have no religion no ethics, no manners and not much to say which is worth reading. Atheism for these types of people is seen as a bully's charter.Drinking Beverage
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09-06-2014, 04:35 PM
RE: Church rituals and ceremonies
I do not miss the rituals of the Catholic Church. I found them mind numbingly boring.
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09-06-2014, 04:40 PM
RE: Church rituals and ceremonies
(09-06-2014 03:19 PM)Deltabravo Wrote:  If it makes people "mindful" of behaving in a certain way and that behaviour is based on a sound moral foundation, then great. It's like lighting incense or dancing, part of life's rich tapestry...

It's when people get lost in the ceremony and think that engaging in these acts is more important than the behaviour towards others when it falls down, when they think that performing ritutals sets them apart, makes them better and will ensure them a place in "heaven" or give them an advantage over others that it become perverted and wrong.

That is the criticism I have heard from some Muslims, for example, of the wearing of headscarves by women. Some Muslims point out that women did not used to wear them and there is nothing in their religion that says they have to. Older women used to wear them simply to protect their hair or for fashion but then it became something which Muslim women started doing to show that they were more devout, better than others.

Same with Christianity, where a lot of Christians simply don't behave in a Christian way at all but go to church because they think it will save them. Some people, a former boss of mine, are complete bastards in their daily lives, treat people like dirt, but go off to Church and are at the head of the procession on Easter Sunday, probably because they know what awful people they are.

Here we don't have that dilemma. Many people here are moral nihilists and treating people like shit is just part of their persona and something they enjoy. They have no religion no ethics, no manners and not much to say which is worth reading. Atheism for these types of people is seen as a bully's charter.Drinking Beverage

Well, I guess I'm thinking more of active ceremony rather than wearing scarfs and certain clothing. It seems that most religions have candles involved in their rituals and smoke and (mirrors) and incense. The catholic church has a lot of that going. The Eastern orthodox is very ritually involved. There's lots of chanting. Hindus do much the same. It's as if candles and incense and chanting is universal to many religions and the god is almost secondary to the visual content of the ceremony. As an outsider I always loved looking at stuff like that but I'm sure if I had to sit through a whole mass every Sunday I'd go nuts. But I love the theatre of it. Great costumes and hats. The acting is bad though and the protagonist of the story is a meany and very confusing.

Shakespeare's Comedy of Errors.... on Donald J. Trump:

He is deformed, crooked, old, and sere,
Ill-fac’d, worse bodied, shapeless every where;
Vicious, ungentle, foolish, blunt, unkind,
Stigmatical in making, worse in mind.
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09-06-2014, 08:10 PM
RE: Church rituals and ceremonies
I don't miss the ritual at all, but I was raised in a moderate Protestant church, so there wasn't really any.

On the origins of the ritual...

   

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09-06-2014, 11:41 PM
RE: Church rituals and ceremonies
Grew up Mormon, I don't miss the church ritual one fucking bit. So much time could have been spent with my family instead of with the various church groups, that I really think my relationship with my parents and brother suffered because of it.

Church was basically all I really knew up to my junior year of high school, and even then I had Seminary class every other day. From when I was young, it was church every Sunday without question, Boy Scouts (basically church lite) and later on youth group activities once a week. Starting grade 7, it was seminary every day up through grade 9. Grade 10 it was every other day, I even "graduated" from seminary my senior year of high school, 2 years after realizing I was an atheist.

Church takes time away from things that are actually worthy of your time and effort.

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10-06-2014, 07:35 AM
RE: Church rituals and ceremonies
(09-06-2014 02:20 PM)dancefortwo Wrote:  But do any of you miss the rituals and ceremonies too? And if so, have you found a way to replace them with other kinds of non religious ceremonies?

I play D&D, so my pretend rituals have always been far more grand than the pretend rituals of church.

On a more serious note, even as a Christian, a lot of the rituals we did seemed odd to me. I remember being told as a kid why the pastor "forgives" all our sins even though he admittedly isn't doing shit, yet... they do it every week. Seeing bits and pieces of Catholic rituals always seemed interesting (sort of like they really believed D&D magic was real), but it wasn't something I wanted to emulate in real life. It seemed interesting, theatrical, and at the same time, impractically pointless.
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10-06-2014, 08:40 AM
RE: Church rituals and ceremonies
I was thoroughly bored in church while growing up. When I was an older teen and started to take more interest in religion, I was still fairly bored, but the benefit I felt from going to church came from dedicating time to Jesus. So I was happy to be there in one sense, but really still couldn't have cared less about all the rituals specifically. Once I realized Jesus was just part of a fairy tale, there was nothing left for me to miss. Today, I'm more than happy to have my Sunday mornings for other purposes. Yes

I am not accountable to any God. I am accountable to myself - and not because I think I am God as some theists would try to assert - but because, no matter what actions I take, thoughts I think, or words I utter, I have to be able to live with myself.
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10-06-2014, 08:44 AM
RE: Church rituals and ceremonies
No, I do not not getting to sleep in on Sunday so that I could listen to an old guy spew things I couldn't understand, then having to waste another hour of my weekend on "learning" stuff I knew already.

And I most certainly don't miss my days of Catholic school, where I had to do the former twice a week.

I've replaced them with sleep and doing things that are actually entertaining.
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