Circular reasoning.
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30-04-2015, 04:41 PM
RE: Circular reasoning.
(30-04-2015 10:52 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  
(27-04-2015 06:54 PM)Chas Wrote:  Nope. We confirm the observations of our senses with the external facts and the agreement of others' observations.

Science works, bitches.

Or in other words we confirm the observation of our senses with our senses? The "facts used to establish the truth or falsehood of any statement are understood to be relative to the perspective of those proving or falsifying the proposition".

That's right. We can confirm our sight with our other senses. If we see an apple on a table and we aren't sure that it's an apple, we can pick it up and feel the smooth skin and the dry stem. we can take a bite. we can smell it. We can even hear what it sounds like when we break the skin with our teeth. The job of the senses is to bring us data about the things around us. If we are aware of our surroundings then our senses are validated. They are doing their job according to their nature.

And on a side note. size, color, place and weight are all omitted measurements. If we were to see a strange fruit of a strange color and it has the flavor of an apple, the taste of an Apple and it comes from the same species of tree as an Apple then we can integrate this new specimen into our concept "apple". Measurement omission is a key part of concept formation and is what leads to open ended concepts into which we can integrate every apple that exists now, will ever exist and has ever existed. That's quite a powerful ability our mind has to subsume an unlimited number of units into the single mental unit "apple".

If you are unfamiliar with the concept of measurement omission, I suggest you read An Introduction to Objectivist Epistemology.

Do not lose your knowledge that man's proper estate is an upright posture, an intransigent mind and a step that travels unlimited roads. - Ayn Rand.

Don't sacrifice for me, live for yourself! - Me

The only alternative to Objectivism is some form of Subjectivism. - Dawson Bethrick
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01-05-2015, 12:08 AM
RE: Circular reasoning.
(30-04-2015 11:28 AM)Tomasia Wrote:  No, it's all about drawing conclusions, interpretations, because everything is filtered and being recognized, and drawn in our own minds. And if one's own mind is not particularly reliable, prone to biases, and deceptions why should you trust your observation mean what they do?

Congratulations: you have just discovered the problem of hard solipsism. As my post on the first page of this thread shows, neither of us has an answer to it; if you insist upon questioning our ability to reliably depict objective reality, then you have already lost.

You mentioned delusional people, but have you given any thought to how we diagnose mental illnesses like that? We do that in the same way we confirm the evidence of our senses, via collaboration; we can cross-reference the input of our senses with other people. The primary indicator of a delusional person is when that person's experiences do not concur with those norms.

But you're asserting that this is a circular and flawed method of determining the validity of our sense perceptions: are you then also asserting that every diagnosed mentally ill person has been wrongly diagnosed? Or are you just going to pick and choose what consequences of your own position you want to deal with?

Go ahead and special plead, if you want: it makes my job so much easier.
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