Circumcision - because Kevuchka asked for it.
Post Reply
 
Thread Rating:
  • 0 Votes - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
03-01-2012, 08:46 AM
RE: Circumcision - because Kevuchka asked for it.
(30-12-2011 04:22 PM)LadyJane Wrote:  
(29-12-2011 01:11 PM)germanyt Wrote:  
(29-12-2011 12:10 PM)LadyJane Wrote:  
(28-12-2011 11:28 AM)germanyt Wrote:  If you think the government should step in and regulate everything we do as parents then you sir, are wrong. I'm glad we don't have an authoritarian like you in charge. God forbid someone do something that you didn't agree with.

The government regulates other things, like mandatory HIV tests, vitamin K boosts, child protection services and many more things as advocates (not authoritarian Nazi-like regulations that you make it sound like). So should children in abusive drug addiction homes with neglect and other traumas not be interfered with either? Because it's every parents right to raise their children exactly how they wish? Should we turn a blind eye to social norms that are abusive? What about when teachers used to beat children with meter sticks? or straps? Stoning people? These all use to be widely accepted forms of treatment in our society and the big bad government made evil laws to stop it all.


(29-12-2011 10:11 AM)germanyt Wrote:  I don't hear about grown men dying during vasectomies.

I don't hear of grown men getting vasectomies without any kind of pain relief during and after the procedure.

Yes, perfectly healthy babies do die from this every year, and it's swept under the rug because circumcision *makes money*. And isn't that what's the most important?


--------------V your line is here--------------V my line is here
..................I.............circumcision..........I......................................................abuse........stoning......​....rape...........murder......


A very minor disagreement IMO. If my line was -----------------------------------------------^here-------^or here then I'd expect such an opposition.


I don't understand this reply at all? I don't understand the editing? I don't see how my points were reflected and opposed?

And if it's about where we both stand, I already gathered you stand for it and I am against... we are discussing why, aren't we?

I'm confused from this last reply.


I wasn't really attempting to explain why I'm okay with it. I don't really care to. I just am. I don't think it's that big of a deal and you, and others, do. We have a difference of opinion. Mine is centered around the insignificance of the foreskin and yours is centered around human rights and mutilation. Fact is that circumcision isn't going anywhere. So if you don't want your kids circumcised then don't do it. And those that want their kids circumcised, just let them be.

“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect.”

-Mark Twain
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
03-01-2012, 10:14 AM
RE: Circumcision - because Kevuchka asked for it.
(03-01-2012 08:46 AM)germanyt Wrote:  I wasn't really attempting to explain why I'm okay with it. I don't really care to. I just am. I don't think it's that big of a deal and you, and others, do. We have a difference of opinion. Mine is centered around the insignificance of the foreskin and yours is centered around human rights and mutilation. Fact is that circumcision isn't going anywhere. So if you don't want your kids circumcised then don't do it. And those that want their kids circumcised, just let them be.

Because we see this as a clear human rights issue, we are not going to let it be.

I don't see how anyone can not see it as a human rights violation; unnecessarily cutting off a piece of someone's body without consent - seems pretty clear to me.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
03-01-2012, 10:17 AM
RE: Circumcision - because Kevuchka asked for it.
Germanyt, why do u cling to these old barbaric desert rituals?
i invite you to explore the history and beginings of circumcision and you'll find that it started with religion
sawing off your childrens genitalia to appease a tribal desert specter and sexually oppress.
This act has no good basis for existing with us until the 21st century and it was invented before the germ theory of disease.
It has no imperical evidence that it is useful actually it is proven to be harmful in many cases.
It is a healthy natural piece of tissue that has its biological uses and darwinian reasons to be here.

now a couple of questions i would like you to answer for me please, if you dont answer then i consider you a fundie-nutbag not worth my time.

1) Do you think it's ok to subject helpless children to this act in light of all the evidence that was posted here to show how it is not healthy and anti human rights?
2) would you make your own children do get cut before the legal age of conscent? (before they are mature enough to form a life changing decision)
3) If circumcision is ok, then where does it stop when we decide what useless parts of infants to cut off? the appendix? the ear lobes? the pinky toe? the male nipples? a single testicle cuz we have two? if ur answer is that none of these should be cut off from a child then why is circumcision an acception?
4) How do you defend yourself, if u circumcize your infant and when he grows up doesnt agree with your actions and resents you for it?
5) you may be perfectly happy being circumcized (nobody says you shouldnt) but why would you take the choice away from someone too young to understand or obeject?
6) do you take issue with female circumcision? if so what makes it so different from male circumcision in principle? If you have a daughter would you cut off her clitoris and sew shut her labias together?

Please answer these questions germanyt and dont ignore it like my last 2 posts.

"Yeah, good idea. Make them buy your invisible apple. Insist that they do. Market it properly and don't stop until they pay for it." -Malleus
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
03-01-2012, 10:34 AM
RE: Circumcision - because Kevuchka asked for it.
(03-01-2012 10:17 AM)Jackrabbit Wrote:  Germanyt, why do u cling to these old barbaric desert rituals?
i invite you to explore the history and beginings of circumcision and you'll find that it started with religion
sawing off your childrens genitalia to appease a tribal desert specter and sexually oppress.
This act has no good basis for existing with us until the 21st century and it was invented before the germ theory of disease.
It has no imperical evidence that it is useful actually it is proven to be harmful in many cases.
It is a healthy natural piece of tissue that has its biological uses and darwinian reasons to be here.

now a couple of questions i would like you to answer for me please, if you dont answer then i consider you a fundie-nutbag not worth my time.

1) Do you think it's ok to subject helpless children to this act in light of all the evidence that was posted here to show how it is not healthy and anti human rights?

Yes

2) would you make your own children do get cut before the legal age of conscent? (before they are mature enough to form a life changing decision)

I don't know. But probably.

3) If circumcision is ok, then where does it stop when we decide what useless parts of infants to cut off? the appendix? the ear lobes? the pinky toe? the male nipples? a single testicle cuz we have two? if ur answer is that none of these should be cut off from a child then why is circumcision an acception?

I don't see a reason to include the appendix as it is completely useless. As for the others, it is against the law to cut off an ear lobe, pinky toe, and nipples. Even if I did think they were okay you wouldn't have to worry because they are illegal. Circumcision is not. Indicating that a vast majority see it as a far lesser issue than cuttting off a testicle.

4) How do you defend yourself, if u circumcize your infant and when he grows up doesnt agree with your actions and resents you for it?

If I decided to have my son circumcized it would likely be for social/sexual reasons. If he resents me, so be it. He can also resent me for the car I got him when he was 16 or all the god damned food I fed him while he was growing up.

5) you may be perfectly happy being circumcized (nobody says you shouldnt) but why would you take the choice away from someone too young to understand or obeject?

I'm not taking that choice away. I'm not the one circumcizing other babies. It is entirely up to other parents to circumcize their kids. Why do you insist on taking away my right as a parent to raise my son the way I see fit? Be it for social, sexual, or religious reasons.

6) do you take issue with female circumcision? if so what makes it so different from male circumcision in principle? If you have a daughter would you cut off her clitoris and sew shut her labias together?

Yes I take issue with it. Male circumcision is cosmetic surgery. Female circumcision is sadism.

Please answer these questions germanyt and dont ignore it like my last 2 posts.

Not advocating banning of the practice isn't 'clingging' to it.

“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect.”

-Mark Twain
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
03-01-2012, 10:43 AM
RE: Circumcision - because Kevuchka asked for it.
Once I had seen a couple off pictures of circumcisions that goes wrong, in the USA it is about a 100 to 150 a year I thought.
The remaining penises was from nothing to lost only half the glance.
And that for a unnecessary barbaric thing.
I have sought for the pics to set the link here, but I can't found it anymore.
I have seen the video for a minute or so and my stomach become sick.

Note: To send this message, no trees cut down,
although there are many electrons severely hindered.
All the bits are reused.

Future World

73 Jim .--. . .---- .-. . .- PE1REA
Email, put amsat dot org behind the call
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
03-01-2012, 10:48 AM
RE: Circumcision - because Kevuchka asked for it.
(03-01-2012 10:34 AM)germanyt Wrote:  1) Do you think it's ok to subject helpless children to this act in light of all the evidence that was posted here to show how it is not healthy and anti human rights?

Yes

So you completely ignore the human rights of the child.

Quote:3) If circumcision is ok, then where does it stop when we decide what useless parts of infants to cut off? the appendix? the ear lobes? the pinky toe? the male nipples? a single testicle cuz we have two? if ur answer is that none of these should be cut off from a child then why is circumcision an acception?

I don't see a reason to include the appendix as it is completely useless. As for the others, it is against the law to cut off an ear lobe, pinky toe, and nipples. Even if I did think they were okay you wouldn't have to worry because they are illegal. Circumcision is not. Indicating that a vast majority see it as a far lesser issue than cuttting off a testicle.

That's really the point of the OP - it should be illegal.

Quote:5) you may be perfectly happy being circumcized (nobody says you shouldnt) but why would you take the choice away from someone too young to understand or obeject?

I'm not taking that choice away. I'm not the one circumcizing other babies. It is entirely up to other parents to circumcize their kids. Why do you insist on taking away my right as a parent to raise my son the way I see fit? Be it for social, sexual, or religious reasons.

You are taking the choice away from the person being circumcised.

Quote:6) do you take issue with female circumcision? if so what makes it so different from male circumcision in principle? If you have a daughter would you cut off her clitoris and sew shut her labias together?

Yes I take issue with it. Male circumcision is cosmetic surgery. Female circumcision is sadism.

How is one cosmetic and the other sadism?

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
[Image: flagstiny%206.gif]
Visit this user's website Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
03-01-2012, 10:57 AM (This post was last modified: 03-01-2012 11:04 AM by Jim.)
RE: Circumcision - because Kevuchka asked for it.
At least I found something.
[Image: comp.gif]

Quote:[A] Urethral fistula at frenulum (note probe), probably the result of incisional trauma. [B] Three-year-old boy with an almost transected glans from circumcision at birth, but parents did not note the abnormality until age 3. Urethra had been completely transected (arrow). [C] Neonate referred immediately after Gomco clamp circumcision in which all the skin of the shaft had been amputated. This is a fairly common complication caused by pulling too much skin up into the clamp and amputating it. Fortunately sometimes there is enough of the mucosal side of the prepuce to fold back to resurface the shaft, but some require a free skin graft. [D] Six-month-old baby was referred after loss of the entire penis from cautery used during circumcision. Evidently both corpora had thrombosed and sloughed, so no phallus remained.

Maybe I found more, pics are hard to find.

Something to read before you use the knive,
http://www.cirp.org/library/complications/comp.gif

Note: To send this message, no trees cut down,
although there are many electrons severely hindered.
All the bits are reused.

Future World

73 Jim .--. . .---- .-. . .- PE1REA
Email, put amsat dot org behind the call
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
03-01-2012, 11:23 AM
RE: Circumcision - because Kevuchka asked for it.
(03-01-2012 10:34 AM)germanyt Wrote:  
(03-01-2012 10:17 AM)Jackrabbit Wrote:  Germanyt, why do u cling to these old barbaric desert rituals?
i invite you to explore the history and beginings of circumcision and you'll find that it started with religion
sawing off your childrens genitalia to appease a tribal desert specter and sexually oppress.
This act has no good basis for existing with us until the 21st century and it was invented before the germ theory of disease.
It has no imperical evidence that it is useful actually it is proven to be harmful in many cases.
It is a healthy natural piece of tissue that has its biological uses and darwinian reasons to be here.

now a couple of questions i would like you to answer for me please, if you dont answer then i consider you a fundie-nutbag not worth my time.

1) Do you think it's ok to subject helpless children to this act in light of all the evidence that was posted here to show how it is not healthy and anti human rights?

Yes

so you willingly subject defensless people knowing fullwell there are negative medical implications and no positive, and that it is anti human rights, the right for each person to govern their own body.
I have to say that is a very sickining opinion

2) would you make your own children do get cut before the legal age of conscent? (before they are mature enough to form a life changing decision)

I don't know. But probably.

How do you justify it? assuming that even if it is cosmetic and has no bad implications would you give an infant breast implants, lipo suchtions, face liffts or beutox?
Explain yourself

3) If circumcision is ok, then where does it stop when we decide what useless parts of infants to cut off? the appendix? the ear lobes? the pinky toe? the male nipples? a single testicle cuz we have two? if ur answer is that none of these should be cut off from a child then why is circumcision an acception?

I don't see a reason to include the appendix as it is completely useless. As for the others, it is against the law to cut off an ear lobe, pinky toe, and nipples. Even if I did think they were okay you wouldn't have to worry because they are illegal. Circumcision is not. Indicating that a vast majority see it as a far lesser issue than cuttting off a testicle.

There is no reason to see circumcision as an acception, it is unjustifyable
and the vast majority are not right, the vast majority supported slavery and banning women from voting and GLBT rights until people stood up and took their rights. i dont see why the sexual organ should be treated any differently than a nipple or an earlobe and until now you havent justified it.

4) How do you defend yourself, if u circumcize your infant and when he grows up doesnt agree with your actions and resents you for it?

If I decided to have my son circumcized it would likely be for social/sexual reasons. If he resents me, so be it. He can also resent me for the car I got him when he was 16 or all the god damned food I fed him while he was growing up.

Let me say that is a very Owner/Slave mentallity, children are your dependants that doesnt give you free reighn to abuse them, you are morally and legally responsible for providing adequate living standards for your child and that doesnt justify the cutting of the genitalia, a good parent would infact be protective of his child and question why this is neccesary.
if social laws dictated that one must cut one of his ears off and present it as a wedding gift that would by no means make it an ok practice

5) you may be perfectly happy being circumcized (nobody says you shouldnt) but why would you take the choice away from someone too young to understand or obeject?

I'm not taking that choice away. I'm not the one circumcizing other babies. It is entirely up to other parents to circumcize their kids. Why do you insist on taking away my right as a parent to raise my son the way I see fit? Be it for social, sexual, or religious reasons.

You are taking the choice away from your infant to be circumcised, your right and duty as a parent is to protect, provide and educate, not to hack and slash when even you cant justify it like i said an infant is dependant not a slave to do with what you will and chop it up to social education or religious reasons. If it was religious custom for human sacrifice that shit wouldnt fly, because you have no right as a parent to alter the body of your child for non medical reasons (Surgery or medicin to combat a specific illness)
not just give a child an appendectomy because it is socially acceptable and he wont miss it.

6) do you take issue with female circumcision? if so what makes it so different from male circumcision in principle? If you have a daughter would you cut off her clitoris and sew shut her labias together?

Yes I take issue with it. Male circumcision is cosmetic surgery. Female circumcision is sadism.
How do you draw the line? males feel just as much pain from the procedure.
experience the same loss of sexual sensitivity and both surgeries are considered cosmetic. Both surgeries have the same tribal backwards beginings, and practicers of FGM will argue that it keeps the woman from cheating or being promiscuous (it does as it removes an organ necesary for sexual lust)

Please answer these questions germanyt and dont ignore it like my last 2 posts.

Not advocating banning of the practice isn't 'clingging' to it.

I would ask you one final question.
Can you justify it?
there is no cultural, social or religious free pass to kill, maim or harm another human being, there just isnt and until you can produce a reason that allows for circumcision to be performed on all children without excption then you have no right to inflict it upon your offspring, and my child ill do with it what i want is a pretty poor argument, my daughter ill mutilate her geniltals, my child ill tatto jesus, buddha or a dragon on his body. i feed him i cut him.

These are not acceptable arguments.

"Yeah, good idea. Make them buy your invisible apple. Insist that they do. Market it properly and don't stop until they pay for it." -Malleus
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
03-01-2012, 11:40 AM
RE: Circumcision - because Kevuchka asked for it.
This unit is beyond repair. Abort mission.

Oh, no Hallucinations 4:11 says the 'gilded sheep should be stewed in rat blood' but Morons 5:16 contradicts it. (Chas)

I would never shake a baby unless the recipe requires it.
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
03-01-2012, 12:14 PM
RE: Circumcision - because Kevuchka asked for it.
(03-01-2012 10:57 AM)Jim Wrote:  At least I found something.
[Image: comp.gif]

Quote:[A] Urethral fistula at frenulum (note probe), probably the result of incisional trauma. [B] Three-year-old boy with an almost transected glans from circumcision at birth, but parents did not note the abnormality until age 3. Urethra had been completely transected (arrow). [C] Neonate referred immediately after Gomco clamp circumcision in which all the skin of the shaft had been amputated. This is a fairly common complication caused by pulling too much skin up into the clamp and amputating it. Fortunately sometimes there is enough of the mucosal side of the prepuce to fold back to resurface the shaft, but some require a free skin graft. [D] Six-month-old baby was referred after loss of the entire penis from cautery used during circumcision. Evidently both corpora had thrombosed and sloughed, so no phallus remained.

Maybe I found more, pics are hard to find.

Something to read before you use the knive,
http://www.cirp.org/library/complications/comp.gif


So plastic surgery should be banned because Kanye West's mom died? Transporting children in cars should be banned because kids die in car wrecks? Kid slips and falls on a wet floor so we ban mops? Seems to me the problem is doctors that don't know how to perform a circumcision. It can't be that easy to just mess up.

“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect.”

-Mark Twain
Find all posts by this user
Like Post Quote this message in a reply
Post Reply
Forum Jump: