Circumcision - because Kevuchka asked for it.
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03-01-2012, 05:08 PM
RE: Circumcision - because Kevuchka asked for it.
(03-01-2012 04:54 PM)Jackrabbit Wrote:  
(03-01-2012 04:39 PM)germanyt Wrote:  
(03-01-2012 04:32 PM)Jackrabbit Wrote:  There is no such thing as an ultimate authority, there is such a thing as discussing and weighing the evidence and im pissed that you against all evidence and failing to provide a good argument that circumcision is a good idea (apart from "i dont see why not") still thinks it is normal.
im not saying circumcision should be banned im saying it should be the choice of a person who is actually getting a piece of their dick lobbed off.
and i am in favour of it being put to a vote and people being educated on its effects.

I don't have a good argument for it. That would only exist if there was a negative effect of not getting one. To my knowledge there isn't. I'm indifferent. I'm neither for nor against circumcision. I just don't see as a big enough issue to warrant a ban on it. It will die out without paying any attention to it whatsoever.
(03-01-2012 04:35 PM)Malleus Wrote:  No, you got yourself out of the conversation due to your use of arguments along the lines of: "I made you, therefore you're mine. I get to fuck you, maim you or kill you in any way I please as long as you live under my roof".

Strong generalization. I am indifferent to circumcision so I must think that rape and pillage are okay? You're bordering on ad hominems to discredit my point of view.

Slavery didnt die out by just "not paying attention to it" and neither did women or GLBT get their rights.
again, ur using ban, when im not advocating a full ban, just advocating that the child gets to have a say in the matter, which u never adress.
im out, clearly ur unconvincable, and thats a problem, morality and human rights issues like circum. should be subject to discussion, if someone magically pulled some proof that circumcision has a benificiary medical effect on everyone without exception that trumps human rights (Circum. gives children super immunity for some reason and its sceintifically proven) i might agree and advocate it depending on the situation. but that is not the case therefore i condemn it when it is forced on humans who dont get a say, i am indefferent when a mature legal age person elects to perform it and i advocated when it is medically necesary (for one disease or another).
A sign of an open mind is being able to revise ones ideas based on new evidence. and you clearly dont.


I've heard all this before. This isn't the first time I've debated this issue. I'm just not convinced that circumcision is a big deal. It's a non issue for me until someone says "ban it" or "mandate it". I'm not sure I'd get a circumcision as an adult because of the procedure (pain, healing time, etc) but I'm glad I had it done at a young enough age that I don't remember.

I only see your point of view from one angle. The one where someone grows up and is pissed about having had it done. Even though these people are very few and far between I guess I'd be pretty upset if I had grown up to wish I hadn't been cut. But you can't just ban a religious practice like circumcision when so few people see it as a big issue. Not only is it wildly accepted but it's also protected by the 1st Amendment. And as long as people do it for religious reasons others will do it for social reasons. And I'm talking about banning for minors not just an outright ban.

And don't compare circumcision to slavery.

I'd also like to add that I've been web browsing this topic. After all the photos I've seen I can't help but mention how grateful I am that I'm circumcised.

“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect.”

-Mark Twain
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03-01-2012, 05:14 PM
RE: Circumcision - because Kevuchka asked for it.
lets do human sacrifice for religion then, my child ill do whatever i want with him
1st amendment ftw

"Yeah, good idea. Make them buy your invisible apple. Insist that they do. Market it properly and don't stop until they pay for it." -Malleus
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03-01-2012, 05:15 PM
RE: Circumcision - because Kevuchka asked for it.
(03-01-2012 05:08 PM)germanyt Wrote:  Not only is it wildly accepted but it's also protected by the 1st Amendment. And as long as people do it for religious reasons others will do it for social reasons. And I'm talking about banning for minors not just an outright ban.

I've only been talking about minors. You want to do it as an adult? Have at it.

But it is not protected by the First Amendment any more than human sacrifice is. None of the rights spelled out are unlimited.

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03-01-2012, 05:33 PM
RE: Circumcision - because Kevuchka asked for it.
(03-01-2012 05:14 PM)Jackrabbit Wrote:  lets do human sacrifice for religion then, my child ill do whatever i want with him
1st amendment ftw

Have fun in your over reaching generalization goals in 2012.

(03-01-2012 05:15 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(03-01-2012 05:08 PM)germanyt Wrote:  Not only is it wildly accepted but it's also protected by the 1st Amendment. And as long as people do it for religious reasons others will do it for social reasons. And I'm talking about banning for minors not just an outright ban.

None of the rights spelled out are unlimited.


I agree. Currently circumcision is though.

“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect.”

-Mark Twain
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03-01-2012, 05:38 PM
RE: Circumcision - because Kevuchka asked for it.
and why not slavery? the bible advocates slavery? shouldnt all christians be able to keep virgin slaves from war?
Circumcision is activly hurting people, it is the equivilant of branding an infant's ass like a cow with a cross or some other religious symbol
it hurts like hell, leaves a permanent mark, puts a child at unecesary risk of infection or complication and incase of circumcision it diminishes sex life as evidence suggests (whether u agree with this or not that can be disputed later)
would that be protected under free speech? would you have a moral problem with that or not?

"Yeah, good idea. Make them buy your invisible apple. Insist that they do. Market it properly and don't stop until they pay for it." -Malleus
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03-01-2012, 05:41 PM
RE: Circumcision - because Kevuchka asked for it.
(03-01-2012 05:08 PM)germanyt Wrote:  And don't compare circumcision to slavery.

Don't compare circumcision with driving.

Also, just like you claim that you are grateful for being circumcised, I heard people saying (literally, I saw their faces, they were saying it and they were dead serious) and I quote:

"I am very proud for being deaf. I am very grateful and happy that I was born deaf and I pray to God that my children will be born deaf."

I saw the deaf community protesting when a woman tried to fix her children's hearing with cochlear implants because they saw it as an attempt to "undermine the deaf culture". I shit you not.

I can't believe that you don't see the problem with that and that you'd be ok with destroying or even refusing to fix a child's hearing.

That's what I was trying to explain. If someone gave me the choice of piercing my eardrums or getting circumcised, I honestly do not know what I'd choose.

You would definitely choose circumcised and if you let the deaf guys choose what you should do, they'll definitely go with deaf. You're just as poorly informed as they are.

Oh, no Hallucinations 4:11 says the 'gilded sheep should be stewed in rat blood' but Morons 5:16 contradicts it. (Chas)

I would never shake a baby unless the recipe requires it.
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04-01-2012, 08:39 AM (This post was last modified: 04-01-2012 08:52 AM by germanyt.)
RE: Circumcision - because Kevuchka asked for it.
(03-01-2012 05:41 PM)Malleus Wrote:  
(03-01-2012 05:08 PM)germanyt Wrote:  And don't compare circumcision to slavery.

Don't compare circumcision with driving.

Also, just like you claim that you are grateful for being circumcised, I heard people saying (literally, I saw their faces, they were saying it and they were dead serious) and I quote:

"I am very proud for being deaf. I am very grateful and happy that I was born deaf and I pray to God that my children will be born deaf."

I saw the deaf community protesting when a woman tried to fix her children's hearing with cochlear implants because they saw it as an attempt to "undermine the deaf culture". I shit you not.

I can't believe that you don't see the problem with that and that you'd be ok with destroying or even refusing to fix a child's hearing.

That's what I was trying to explain. If someone gave me the choice of piercing my eardrums or getting circumcised, I honestly do not know what I'd choose.

You would definitely choose circumcised and if you let the deaf guys choose what you should do, they'll definitely go with deaf. You're just as poorly informed as they are.


I'm not sure what the hell I just read but it sounds like you aren't sure whether you would keep your hearing or your foreskin.

Obvious choice is obvious.
This will be my last post in this thread. I'm tired of this and tired of being treated like a child torturer or woman stoner just because I don't want a ban on child circumcision. I can only imagine what the thread would have been like if I told you I was pro-choice.

“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect.”

-Mark Twain
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04-01-2012, 09:53 AM
RE: Circumcision - because Kevuchka asked for it.
(04-01-2012 08:39 AM)germanyt Wrote:  I'm not sure what the hell I just read but it sounds like you aren't sure whether you would keep your hearing or your foreskin.

Obvious choice is obvious.

Not as obvious as you may think. I actually know how removing my foreskin would affect my comfort and my sexual life. You don't.

Piercing my eardrums is also about "just a piece of skin". The difference is that you actually understand what this skin is for and you ignore the purpose of the other. Just like I can maintain some feeling in my penis, I can fix some of my hearing with some form of hearing aid. But they are both unnecessary and they would both make my life less enjoyable. The comparison is valid.

Quote:I'm tired of this and tired of being treated like a child torturer or woman stoner just because I don't want a ban on child circumcision. I can only imagine what the thread would have been like if I told you I was pro-choice.

I am pro-choice too. I didn't use to be, but, unlike you, I was willing to listen to reason when people presented me with valid arguments. And if I hear new reasons defending a pro-life stance, I am willing to listen to those too. In this case, you made an extremely poor argument and in the end your only final points were arguments from stubbornness. You failed to make a valid point about why your rights as a parent are more important than the rights of your own child over his own body.

You *are* in the same category as child torturers and woman stoners because you use the same "logic" they do to justify their actions.

Oh, no Hallucinations 4:11 says the 'gilded sheep should be stewed in rat blood' but Morons 5:16 contradicts it. (Chas)

I would never shake a baby unless the recipe requires it.
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04-01-2012, 10:21 AM
RE: Circumcision - because Kevuchka asked for it.
im a pro choicer with a limit. there is such a thing biologically as an unborn childso for me last trimester is a no-no.

"Yeah, good idea. Make them buy your invisible apple. Insist that they do. Market it properly and don't stop until they pay for it." -Malleus
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04-01-2012, 10:29 AM
RE: Circumcision - because Kevuchka asked for it.
(04-01-2012 10:21 AM)Jackrabbit Wrote:  im a pro choicer with a limit. there is such a thing biologically as an unborn childso for me last trimester is a no-no.

I personally would never have an abortion. Just a google image search for 10 week fetus was enough for me. But I am not in a position to decide for another person whether or not they should get one.

And here I go. Posting in a thread I wasn't going to post in anymore.

“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect.”

-Mark Twain
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