Circumcision - because Kevuchka asked for it.
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29-12-2011, 10:05 AM
RE: Circumcision - because Kevuchka asked for it.
(29-12-2011 08:52 AM)germanyt Wrote:  I won't even bother explaining the difference between taking a person's life and cutting off a person's foreskin.

100 male American babies die every year BECAUSE of circumcision. Circumcision is unnecessary and those babies would be alive in a mentally healthy country that doesn't cut off body parts for no good reason.

This argument will not go away until you find a reason to justify why a child's circumcision is more important than his life.

Oh, no Hallucinations 4:11 says the 'gilded sheep should be stewed in rat blood' but Morons 5:16 contradicts it. (Chas)

I would never shake a baby unless the recipe requires it.
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29-12-2011, 10:11 AM
RE: Circumcision - because Kevuchka asked for it.
(29-12-2011 10:05 AM)Malleus Wrote:  
(29-12-2011 08:52 AM)germanyt Wrote:  I won't even bother explaining the difference between taking a person's life and cutting off a person's foreskin.

100 male American babies die every year BECAUSE of circumcision. Circumcision is unnecessary and those babies would be alive in a mentally healthy country that doesn't cut off body parts for no good reason.

This argument will not go away until you find a reason to justify why a child's circumcision is more important than his life.


I can't justify that. If the decision is to get circumcised or live then choice is obvious. I choose to get in a car everyday knowing that I could die. But statistics tell me that I have a pretty good chance.

What about a circumcision is killing children anyway? Blood loss? Trauma? Or are these kids already suffering from immune disorders or something? I find it hard to believe that a perfectly healthy infant could or would die from such a simple procedure. I don't hear about grown men dying during vasectomies.

“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect.”

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29-12-2011, 11:16 AM (This post was last modified: 29-12-2011 11:28 AM by Jackrabbit.)
RE: Circumcision - because Kevuchka asked for it.
(29-12-2011 10:11 AM)germanyt Wrote:  
(29-12-2011 10:05 AM)Malleus Wrote:  
(29-12-2011 08:52 AM)germanyt Wrote:  I won't even bother explaining the difference between taking a person's life and cutting off a person's foreskin.

100 male American babies die every year BECAUSE of circumcision. Circumcision is unnecessary and those babies would be alive in a mentally healthy country that doesn't cut off body parts for no good reason.

This argument will not go away until you find a reason to justify why a child's circumcision is more important than his life.


I can't justify that. If the decision is to get circumcised or live then choice is obvious. I choose to get in a car everyday knowing that I could die. But statistics tell me that I have a pretty good chance.

What about a circumcision is killing children anyway? Blood loss? Trauma? Or are these kids already suffering from immune disorders or something? I find it hard to believe that a perfectly healthy infant could or would die from such a simple procedure. I don't hear about grown men dying during vasectomies.

Its because its an invasive procedure and has no clear medical benifits and its results are strictly cosmetic, any invasive procedure no matter what hospital it is performed in carries a risk of infection, all doctors warn against all surgeries that infection might occur or complications like very badly done circumcision which induces pain with every erection and makes having sex near impossible, a risk with every circumcision no matter how well practiced the one who performes it (i researched this issue a while back on the internet while looking to see if it was reversable and you can easily search in google for circumcisions gone wrong).
if you want your children cirumcised then i urge you to please wait until they are atleast 18 and present it to them as a choice weighing the pros and cons objectivly and sceintifically. Your child is under your protection but is not yours to do with as you please. if you still maintain the circumcision is a good idea ill grant you that, but atleast give the person who is going to get cut a choice in the matter of his own body, as he may grow up to disagree and resent you for it as i resent my parents for it.

from the cons of circumcision:
1. risk of infections or complications.
2. Babies go into shock when its performed as it is done without anesthetic and they very much feel the pain.
3.desensitising the nerve cells in the shaft and head due to chafing with clothing.
4.uncut penises are able to preserve more natural lubrication in the vagina (due to the head not scooping out all the material).
5. uncut penises form a rib during intercourse (ribbed condoms) when the foreskin rolls back giving more pleasure to the female (or male if thats your thing)

as for vasectomies, they are acompletely different procedure and they are non invasive and done with a tiny incision in the scorotom ans they still carry the risk of infection or complication. and only consenting adults can get vasectomies, you wouldnt get a vasectomy for your infant child would you? Also vasectomies are reversable in most cases and most people have the option to freeze some of their semen in case they want to have children later on.

"Yeah, good idea. Make them buy your invisible apple. Insist that they do. Market it properly and don't stop until they pay for it." -Malleus
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29-12-2011, 12:10 PM
RE: Circumcision - because Kevuchka asked for it.
(28-12-2011 11:28 AM)germanyt Wrote:  If you think the government should step in and regulate everything we do as parents then you sir, are wrong. I'm glad we don't have an authoritarian like you in charge. God forbid someone do something that you didn't agree with.

The government regulates other things, like mandatory HIV tests, vitamin K boosts, child protection services and many more things as advocates (not authoritarian Nazi-like regulations that you make it sound like). So should children in abusive drug addiction homes with neglect and other traumas not be interfered with either? Because it's every parents right to raise their children exactly how they wish? Should we turn a blind eye to social norms that are abusive? What about when teachers used to beat children with meter sticks? or straps? Stoning people? These all use to be widely accepted forms of treatment in our society and the big bad government made evil laws to stop it all.


(29-12-2011 10:11 AM)germanyt Wrote:  I don't hear about grown men dying during vasectomies.

I don't hear of grown men getting vasectomies without any kind of pain relief during and after the procedure.

Yes, perfectly healthy babies do die from this every year, and it's swept under the rug because circumcision *makes money*. And isn't that what's the most important?
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29-12-2011, 01:11 PM (This post was last modified: 29-12-2011 01:14 PM by germanyt.)
RE: Circumcision - because Kevuchka asked for it.
(29-12-2011 12:10 PM)LadyJane Wrote:  
(28-12-2011 11:28 AM)germanyt Wrote:  If you think the government should step in and regulate everything we do as parents then you sir, are wrong. I'm glad we don't have an authoritarian like you in charge. God forbid someone do something that you didn't agree with.

The government regulates other things, like mandatory HIV tests, vitamin K boosts, child protection services and many more things as advocates (not authoritarian Nazi-like regulations that you make it sound like). So should children in abusive drug addiction homes with neglect and other traumas not be interfered with either? Because it's every parents right to raise their children exactly how they wish? Should we turn a blind eye to social norms that are abusive? What about when teachers used to beat children with meter sticks? or straps? Stoning people? These all use to be widely accepted forms of treatment in our society and the big bad government made evil laws to stop it all.


(29-12-2011 10:11 AM)germanyt Wrote:  I don't hear about grown men dying during vasectomies.

I don't hear of grown men getting vasectomies without any kind of pain relief during and after the procedure.

Yes, perfectly healthy babies do die from this every year, and it's swept under the rug because circumcision *makes money*. And isn't that what's the most important?


--------------V your line is here--------------V my line is here
..................I.............circumcision..........I......................................................abuse........stoning......​....rape...........murder......


A very minor disagreement IMO. If my line was -----------------------------------------------^here-------^or here then I'd expect such an opposition.

“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect.”

-Mark Twain
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29-12-2011, 02:38 PM
RE: Circumcision - because Kevuchka asked for it.
(29-12-2011 01:11 PM)germanyt Wrote:  --------------V your line is here--------------V my line is here
..................I.............circumcision..........I......................................................abuse........stoning......​....rape...........murder......


A very minor disagreement IMO. If my line was -----------------------------------------------^here-------^or here then I'd expect such an opposition.

Again, I ask you, which part of "violation of human rights" don't you understand?

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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29-12-2011, 02:48 PM
RE: Circumcision - because Kevuchka asked for it.
(29-12-2011 02:38 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(29-12-2011 01:11 PM)germanyt Wrote:  --------------V your line is here--------------V my line is here
..................I.............circumcision..........I......................................................abuse........stoning......​....rape...........murder......


A very minor disagreement IMO. If my line was -----------------------------------------------^here-------^or here then I'd expect such an opposition.

Again, I ask you, which part of "violation of human rights" don't you understand?


Lemme just put it this way.

I DON'T CARE! Muslims don't care that stoning women is a violation of human rights and I don't care that you find circumcision a violation of human rights. We don't live in a utopia brah. And you can't expect everyone to see eye-to-eye with you just becasue you think you are right. What is and isn't a human right is entirely subjective and made up by, ummmm.... humans. In my house, my kid(s) are entiltled to only 3 things. Food, clothing, and shelter. The rest is a privelage they are damn lucky to receive. They could be living in Iran or Ethiopia or Somalia.


U mad?

“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect.”

-Mark Twain
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29-12-2011, 03:07 PM
RE: Circumcision - because Kevuchka asked for it.
(29-12-2011 02:48 PM)germanyt Wrote:  
(29-12-2011 02:38 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(29-12-2011 01:11 PM)germanyt Wrote:  --------------V your line is here--------------V my line is here
..................I.............circumcision..........I......................................................abuse........stoning......​....rape...........murder......


A very minor disagreement IMO. If my line was -----------------------------------------------^here-------^or here then I'd expect such an opposition.

Again, I ask you, which part of "violation of human rights" don't you understand?


Lemme just put it this way.

I DON'T CARE! Muslims don't care that stoning women is a violation of human rights and I don't care that you find circumcision a violation of human rights. We don't live in a utopia brah. And you can't expect everyone to see eye-to-eye with you just becasue you think you are right. What is and isn't a human right is entirely subjective and made up by, ummmm.... humans. In my house, my kid(s) are entiltled to only 3 things. Food, clothing, and shelter. The rest is a privelage they are damn lucky to receive. They could be living in Iran or Ethiopia or Somalia.


U mad?
It's not just my opinion; it is a violation of the U.N. Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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29-12-2011, 03:16 PM
RE: Circumcision - because Kevuchka asked for it.
(29-12-2011 03:07 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(29-12-2011 02:48 PM)germanyt Wrote:  
(29-12-2011 02:38 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(29-12-2011 01:11 PM)germanyt Wrote:  --------------V your line is here--------------V my line is here
..................I.............circumcision..........I......................................................abuse........stoning......​....rape...........murder......


A very minor disagreement IMO. If my line was -----------------------------------------------^here-------^or here then I'd expect such an opposition.

Again, I ask you, which part of "violation of human rights" don't you understand?


Lemme just put it this way.

I DON'T CARE! Muslims don't care that stoning women is a violation of human rights and I don't care that you find circumcision a violation of human rights. We don't live in a utopia brah. And you can't expect everyone to see eye-to-eye with you just becasue you think you are right. What is and isn't a human right is entirely subjective and made up by, ummmm.... humans. In my house, my kid(s) are entiltled to only 3 things. Food, clothing, and shelter. The rest is a privelage they are damn lucky to receive. They could be living in Iran or Ethiopia or Somalia.


U mad?
It's not just my opinion; it is a violation of the U.N. Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

It may not be 'just' your opinion. But just because a majority shares an opinion doesn't make it right. I'm not saying circumcision is right or wrong. I just don't have a problem with it.

As a hypothetical, let's discuss getting a tattoo on a 5 year old. Now I personally wouldn't do this but I'd like to know where you stand. To you, would there be any difference in getting a swastika tattoo on your child or say, a tattoo of the childs name? I think this is a decent way to explain the difference in our points of view. I wouldn't tattoo my child because I don't care to. Not becasue of any ideological views against it. But I would see a big difference between a swastika and a name. Both would be taboo according to much of society but I think most would claim that one is far worse.

“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect.”

-Mark Twain
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29-12-2011, 03:20 PM
RE: Circumcision - because Kevuchka asked for it.
(29-12-2011 03:16 PM)germanyt Wrote:  It may not be 'just' your opinion. But just because a majority shares and opinion doesn't make it right. I'm not saying circumcision is right or wrong. I just don't have a problem with it.

As a hypothetical, let's discuss getting a tattoo on a 5 year old. Now I personally wouldn't do this but I'd like to know where you stand. To you, would there be any difference in getting a swastika tattoo on your child or say, a tattoo of the childs name? I think this is a decent way to explain the difference in our points of view. I wouldn't tattoo my child because I don't care to. Not becasue of an ideological views against it. But I would see a big difference between a swastika and a name. Both would be taboo according to much of society but I think most would claim that one is far worse.

I agree that the swastika is far worse, but either is a violation of the rights of the child. A 5-year-old cannot give informed consent, and the parent has no right to his/her will for altering the child's body without medical need.

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
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