Circumcision - because Kevuchka asked for it.
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29-12-2011, 03:23 PM
RE: Circumcision - because Kevuchka asked for it.
(29-12-2011 03:20 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(29-12-2011 03:16 PM)germanyt Wrote:  It may not be 'just' your opinion. But just because a majority shares and opinion doesn't make it right. I'm not saying circumcision is right or wrong. I just don't have a problem with it.

As a hypothetical, let's discuss getting a tattoo on a 5 year old. Now I personally wouldn't do this but I'd like to know where you stand. To you, would there be any difference in getting a swastika tattoo on your child or say, a tattoo of the childs name? I think this is a decent way to explain the difference in our points of view. I wouldn't tattoo my child because I don't care to. Not becasue of an ideological views against it. But I would see a big difference between a swastika and a name. Both would be taboo according to much of society but I think most would claim that one is far worse.

I agree that the swastika is far worse, but either is a violation of the rights of the child. A 5-year-old cannot give informed consent, and the parent has no right to his/her will for altering the child's body without medical need.

I share that view but without having ever considered it being a human rights issue. I just don't want to and don't see a reason to. When it comes to circumcision, I can completely understand a person's reason to. Even if it is religious. One could certainly argue that the 1st Amendment protects circumcision.

“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect.”

-Mark Twain
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29-12-2011, 03:27 PM
RE: Circumcision - because Kevuchka asked for it.
(29-12-2011 03:23 PM)germanyt Wrote:  
(29-12-2011 03:20 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(29-12-2011 03:16 PM)germanyt Wrote:  It may not be 'just' your opinion. But just because a majority shares and opinion doesn't make it right. I'm not saying circumcision is right or wrong. I just don't have a problem with it.

As a hypothetical, let's discuss getting a tattoo on a 5 year old. Now I personally wouldn't do this but I'd like to know where you stand. To you, would there be any difference in getting a swastika tattoo on your child or say, a tattoo of the childs name? I think this is a decent way to explain the difference in our points of view. I wouldn't tattoo my child because I don't care to. Not becasue of an ideological views against it. But I would see a big difference between a swastika and a name. Both would be taboo according to much of society but I think most would claim that one is far worse.

I agree that the swastika is far worse, but either is a violation of the rights of the child. A 5-year-old cannot give informed consent, and the parent has no right to his/her will for altering the child's body without medical need.

I share that view but without having ever considered it being a human rights issue. I just don't want to and don't see a reason to. When it comes to circumcision, I can completely understand a person's reason to. Even if it is religious. One could certainly argue that the 1st Ammendment protects circumcision.

None of the Amendments grant absolute rights. You can't practice human sacrifice even if you claim it's a sacrament of your religion. One could argue that circumcision is protected, but it's a weak argument.
I really wish you would give some thought to the human rights aspect of this.

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29-12-2011, 03:34 PM
RE: Circumcision - because Kevuchka asked for it.
(29-12-2011 03:27 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(29-12-2011 03:23 PM)germanyt Wrote:  
(29-12-2011 03:20 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(29-12-2011 03:16 PM)germanyt Wrote:  It may not be 'just' your opinion. But just because a majority shares and opinion doesn't make it right. I'm not saying circumcision is right or wrong. I just don't have a problem with it.

As a hypothetical, let's discuss getting a tattoo on a 5 year old. Now I personally wouldn't do this but I'd like to know where you stand. To you, would there be any difference in getting a swastika tattoo on your child or say, a tattoo of the childs name? I think this is a decent way to explain the difference in our points of view. I wouldn't tattoo my child because I don't care to. Not becasue of an ideological views against it. But I would see a big difference between a swastika and a name. Both would be taboo according to much of society but I think most would claim that one is far worse.

I agree that the swastika is far worse, but either is a violation of the rights of the child. A 5-year-old cannot give informed consent, and the parent has no right to his/her will for altering the child's body without medical need.

I share that view but without having ever considered it being a human rights issue. I just don't want to and don't see a reason to. When it comes to circumcision, I can completely understand a person's reason to. Even if it is religious. One could certainly argue that the 1st Ammendment protects circumcision.

None of the Amendments grant absolute rights. You can't practice human sacrifice even if you claim it's a sacrament of your religion. One could argue that circumcision is protected, but it's a weak argument.
I really wish you would give some thought to the human rights aspect of this.

Might be difficult for me seeing as how I'm overly satisfied with my cirumcision. I believe if I wasn't I'd wish I was. And I understand your point about human sacrifice but the difference to me is the same as the tattoos. While many could argue that both tattoos are wrong they would still feel as we do, that the swastika is worse. Human sacrifice as a religious practice is still murder(swastika) while circumcision is cosmetic surgery (name). I realize I'm not going to change your mind. I just wanted to express my point of view.

“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect.”

-Mark Twain
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29-12-2011, 04:40 PM
RE: Circumcision - because Kevuchka asked for it.
(29-12-2011 03:34 PM)germanyt Wrote:  Might be difficult for me seeing as how I'm overly satisfied with my cirumcision. I believe if I wasn't I'd wish I was.
But you can't really ever know.
Quote: And I understand your point about human sacrifice but the difference to me is the same as the tattoos. While many could argue that both tattoos are wrong they would still feel as we do, that the swastika is worse. Human sacrifice as a religious practice is still murder(swastika) while circumcision is cosmetic surgery (name). I realize I'm not going to change your mind. I just wanted to express my point of view.

So you believe it's OK to tattoo your children?

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30-12-2011, 08:36 AM
RE: Circumcision - because Kevuchka asked for it.
(29-12-2011 04:40 PM)Chas Wrote:  
(29-12-2011 03:34 PM)germanyt Wrote:  Might be difficult for me seeing as how I'm overly satisfied with my cirumcision. I believe if I wasn't I'd wish I was.
But you can't really ever know.
Quote: And I understand your point about human sacrifice but the difference to me is the same as the tattoos. While many could argue that both tattoos are wrong they would still feel as we do, that the swastika is worse. Human sacrifice as a religious practice is still murder(swastika) while circumcision is cosmetic surgery (name). I realize I'm not going to change your mind. I just wanted to express my point of view.

So you believe it's OK to tattoo your children?

germanyt please read my post in the previous page. i put a lot of effort into it for it to just go ignored. thanks

"Yeah, good idea. Make them buy your invisible apple. Insist that they do. Market it properly and don't stop until they pay for it." -Malleus
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30-12-2011, 12:44 PM
RE: Circumcision - because Kevuchka asked for it.
You're right Jack, your post certainly deserves some love.

I have some things to add too, if I may.

(29-12-2011 11:16 AM)Jackrabbit Wrote:  from the cons of circumcision:
1. risk of infections or complications.

They die from bleeding too

Quote:2. Babies go into shock when its performed as it is done without anesthetic and they very much feel the pain.

Also lasting neurological damage and Post Traumatic Stress Disorder symptoms following the circumcision, especially in the cases when the baby didn't even cry because he went straight into traumatic shock (which has a potential to be deadly in itself).

Quote:5. uncut penises form a rib during intercourse (ribbed condoms) when the foreskin rolls back giving more pleasure to the female (or male if thats your thing)

That "rim" is also sensitive.It contributes to the man's pleasure as well as the partner's. I won't go into too many details, but that skin also comes in very handy during masturbation. It maintains natural lubrication, for one thing, but that's not all it does. An uncut penis is simply more fun. It gives you the opportunity to thoroughly enjoy sex... which is why many sexually-repressed religions invented it. You may think that what you "see" is beautiful, but I'm telling you: your penis is colorblind.

Quote:as for vasectomies, they are a completely different procedure and they are non invasive and done with a tiny incision in the scorotom ans they still carry the risk of infection or complication. and only consenting adults can get vasectomies, you wouldnt get a vasectomy for your infant child would you? Also vasectomies are reversable in most cases and most people have the option to freeze some of their semen in case they want to have children later on.

Also, vasectomies are done with ANESTHETICS and they actually have a valid purpose. Nobody has a vasectomy because their scrotum looks cooler with a scar.

Oh, no Hallucinations 4:11 says the 'gilded sheep should be stewed in rat blood' but Morons 5:16 contradicts it. (Chas)

I would never shake a baby unless the recipe requires it.
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30-12-2011, 04:22 PM
RE: Circumcision - because Kevuchka asked for it.
(29-12-2011 01:11 PM)germanyt Wrote:  
(29-12-2011 12:10 PM)LadyJane Wrote:  
(28-12-2011 11:28 AM)germanyt Wrote:  If you think the government should step in and regulate everything we do as parents then you sir, are wrong. I'm glad we don't have an authoritarian like you in charge. God forbid someone do something that you didn't agree with.

The government regulates other things, like mandatory HIV tests, vitamin K boosts, child protection services and many more things as advocates (not authoritarian Nazi-like regulations that you make it sound like). So should children in abusive drug addiction homes with neglect and other traumas not be interfered with either? Because it's every parents right to raise their children exactly how they wish? Should we turn a blind eye to social norms that are abusive? What about when teachers used to beat children with meter sticks? or straps? Stoning people? These all use to be widely accepted forms of treatment in our society and the big bad government made evil laws to stop it all.


(29-12-2011 10:11 AM)germanyt Wrote:  I don't hear about grown men dying during vasectomies.

I don't hear of grown men getting vasectomies without any kind of pain relief during and after the procedure.

Yes, perfectly healthy babies do die from this every year, and it's swept under the rug because circumcision *makes money*. And isn't that what's the most important?


--------------V your line is here--------------V my line is here
..................I.............circumcision..........I......................................................abuse........stoning......​....rape...........murder......


A very minor disagreement IMO. If my line was -----------------------------------------------^here-------^or here then I'd expect such an opposition.


I don't understand this reply at all? I don't understand the editing? I don't see how my points were reflected and opposed?

And if it's about where we both stand, I already gathered you stand for it and I am against... we are discussing why, aren't we?

I'm confused from this last reply.
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30-12-2011, 05:08 PM (This post was last modified: 30-12-2011 05:11 PM by Infidel.)
RE: Circumcision - because Kevuchka asked for it.
I was circumcised as a baby but I do not remember it. The thing about male or female circumcision that I find to be a crime against humanity is the forced circumcision of older girls (and boys) in many parts of the world. Warning: this is very nasty, and this report happened in England!

I think the world is big enough to get together and stop these stone age nuts permanently! I could give you lots more info on this but this should be enough to make my point.

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02-01-2012, 05:38 AM
RE: Circumcision - because Kevuchka asked for it.
(30-12-2011 12:44 PM)Malleus Wrote:  
(29-12-2011 11:16 AM)Jackrabbit Wrote:  2. Babies go into shock when its performed as it is done without anesthetic and they very much feel the pain.

Also lasting neurological damage and Post Traumatic Stress Disorder symptoms following the circumcision, especially in the cases when the baby didn't even cry because he went straight into traumatic shock (which has a potential to be deadly in itself).

To this i would like to add this video of a little baby boy's circumsition. Notice how he goes into shock. This is not healthy and not done in a safe and clean environment. I find it shocking how the parents actually do something like that to their baby!





And yes, I know that there are cleaner circumsitions in hospitals but still it hurts like crap and the baby goes into shock.

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02-01-2012, 05:54 AM
RE: Circumcision - because Kevuchka asked for it.
Wow, that really does look painful! I am glad I was to young to remember mine now. Silly gods should have gotten it right at "creation". I never gave male circumcision to much thought, until now. It really is brutal and useless.

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